tracking levels ?

Eschatologist said:
Anyone know a way to calculate RMS in Sonar? Currently my meters only show peaks
Click to expand...

Right click in the meter, you can set it to show Peak, RMS or both, with different scales for each.


This thread reminds me of this: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/15038/0/

What was the original from?

I generally try to get the peaks around -6 when tracking. A lot of preamps (like anything attached to an interface) get really noisy near the top of their gain range. Good preamps will allow you to track hotter and cleaner.

I also like that after tracking I can have all faders at unity and not clip the master. Having to turn down every track by -60 just so they don't distort is a pain.

The point made about the plugins clipping is very true. I usually try to match the input and output levels.
 
beyond dead said:
also, I believe the preparing your tracks for re amping thread states that di `s should peak around -18
Click to expand...
actually I just went through the whole thread and -4 seems to be what Oz consistently suggests and nobody cared to disagree with him. It's taking me a effort to digest all of this information. There are a lot of differing opinions. I've been tracking at -6 forever but I'm keeping an open mind and will see if going lower helps anything out
 
I found this on the DUC. It was helpful to me and I thought it might help someone else out.


"Every bit of resolution brings 6dBs to the table, giving us a theoretical 96dB of dynamic range for 16 bits, and 144dB for 24 bits. Using a reference level of -18dBFS for 0dBVU, will — at first glance — reduce resolution by a whopping 3 bits, or 18dB (duh). However, this "loss" is in fact made smaller by any and all peaks exceeding 0dbVU, effectively reducing the amount of "wasted" resolution. Obviously, the dynamic properties of the sound being recorded vary case-by-case, but even the worst-possible mathematical scenario still leaves you with a resolution that is 5 bits (30dB) better than CD resolution."
 
so, in the end it would only matter with cheap preamps that sound bad when you apply alot of gain, that and plugins that work bad on hot signals.

but can a plugin really clip the signal ? if it's written it should work on 32 or 64bit floating and thus have unlimited headroom.
I know the intern bus in cubase or other DAW can't, cause it's 32 bit floating and has virtual unlimited headroom, do mind, i mean the intern bus, not when the signal gets at the master fader, cause on that point you are going back to 24 bit and of course can't go above 0dbfs. in Cubase, when the master distorts, you can just turn that fader down and the signal becomes clean again, it might give a problem for the plugins that you are running on the master buss though, but not if you put them post fader.

for the resolution it prolly doesn't matter much, you still get 21 bit on -18dbfs,
 
Hm, my preamp (well, mixer) only has a meter on the master buss (except a clip led on the mic preamps), -20 (green), 0 (green), 6 (yellow) and clip (red, duh). I've always turned up the gain until it clips, then turn it down so it stops clipping, then adjust the channel strip volume so it doesn't hit the yellow label (6)... Not sure what the values stand for though, but am I doing it a bit too loud? oh, and it's a cheap assed behringer board ;)
 
Noumenon said:
Hm, my preamp (well, mixer) only has a meter on the master buss (except a clip led on the mic preamps), -20 (green), 0 (green), 6 (yellow) and clip (red, duh). I've always turned up the gain until it clips, then turn it down so it stops clipping, then adjust the channel strip volume so it doesn't hit the yellow label (6)... Not sure what the values stand for though, but am I doing it a bit too loud? oh, and it's a cheap assed behringer board ;)
Click to expand...

Why not check the levels in your DAW?
 
F0RBIDDEN said:
It worked before didn't it? All your favourite reamped guitar tones were probably tracked that hot, who gives a fuck.

Everyone needs to stop focusing on nancy details like this shit! This isn't the secret to making your mixes sound like Andy's.
Click to expand...
I have a feeling that once it goes back into analog and runs through the amp that there's not going to be much of an audible difference (if there is one at all.) So in a way, yes, we shouldn't worry too much about it. But its fun to try out new things. At least it's fun for me... but I'm also open to the idea that I may just be a nerd :lol:

To ZombieTakeover and the others: as a rule of thumb, -14dBfs should still be hot enough to drive an amp with a reamper I would imagine (I haven't tried it though), so if we'll technically have better quality DIs tracking in that area then we might as well. Fuck it. But just out of curiosity I'd like to hear from somebody who does it at that level, just to be sure the signal's hot enough. I won't have the time to try it for a while otherwise I'd do it myself.
 
F0RBIDDEN said:
It worked before didn't it? All your favourite reamped guitar tones were probably tracked that hot, who gives a fuck.

Everyone needs to stop focusing on nancy details like this shit! This isn't the secret to making your mixes sound like Andy's.
Click to expand...

I love Andy's work
but my goal in life isn't to have mixes that sound like his
I would LOVE to have a mix in which every instrument has it's own space but still mixes with the others like Andy's does
but I'm definitely looking to have my own unique sound on it
Every little bit counts for me:)
 
Sean in Silence said:
I love Andy's work
but my goal in life isn't to have mixes that sound like his
I would LOVE to have a mix in which every instrument has it's own space but still mixes with the others like Andy's does
but I'm definitely looking to have my own unique sound on it
Every little bit counts for me:)
Click to expand...

every little bit of quality helps. 1000 small things wrong can make one hell of a big mess, so go for the best at every stage

in short, i agree :)
 
I've read this thread and previous ones on this topic several times and I'm still not sure if I understand it all!

I've read the Metering and Gain structure link too.

So, would it be safe to assume if you are using pretty cheap gear (e.g. Firepod) that as long as your peak levels for everything, Drums, Bass, Guitars, Vocals in your DAW (e.g. Cubase) on your VU meters are hovering around -6 with your track faders set at 0 then you're safe?

If I get any clipping on the master bus I would be turning each fader down until I get a decent mix (rather than ever boosting over 0).

Does that sound OK? That's what I currently do! :puke:

Or, should I be recording at lower levels so that the the average peak levels show a lot lower than that say, between -12 and -20?

I'm a bit of a novice at this TBH. :loco:

EDIT: Ah, looking into this actually I think I missed that the dude was saying -12 and -20 dBFS. I'm referring to the dBVU I think? Help!
 
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