trigger mics?

[Arsenu,]

alright here the thing...

after being a member here for a long fucking time, i'm getting my first decent setup going in the coming months which means i'll finally have the means to track more than 2 tracks at a time (at last!!!! :Smokin: )

anyway, after getting a decent 16X I/O interface, studio monitors and who-knows-what other gear, im gonna be short on money so ill start off with really cheap mics and progress a mic at a time!

what im trying to figure out tough, is what's the best way to track ACOUSTIC* drums while not having a proper kit, room acoustics or decent (expensive) mics...

sounds stupid huh? well read on i MIGHT have a point

...which obviously means either way except for OH and room mics, i'll have to replace SNR,BD and TOMS with samples, right? no point in mixing a shitty kit tracked in a shitty room using a shitty mic...

which brings me to this: i remember hearing/reading about "trigger mics" which are really cheap and all they basically do is pick up the hit so you can replace with a sample... well the name says it all.
does anyone know what im talking about? are these things even real or am i imagining? and suppose they aren't real, what's the CHEAPEST mic out there? just so i can get a bunch of them to trigger BD, SNR and TOMS while using decent mics for OH + room

* why not electronic? well fuck that! too tempting to just hit "quantize" plus they pick up extra hits a lot.

 

[JonWormwood]

6 peizos off the internet for 2 bucks, 6 1/4" female inputs $1 ea, some wire = 6 triggers for under 10 bucks

win.

 

[Arsenu,]

didn't get anything, mind explaining?

 

[DullElysium]

Yes they exist.

I have this set: http://www.thomann.de/se/ddrum_triggerset.htm

So far no problems and they work like a charm. But i've heard that these bad boys break easily.

So you need the triggers and then something that triggers the samples from the hits. (drumagog, slate digital trigger..)

And ofcourse some sweet samples.

 

[Arsenu,]

hmmmmmmmm

interesting....
a. cables NOT included means that this set costs around 200 euros which is really not that cheap...

b. which leads me to the question, are these in any way better than what JonWormwood suggested? and if so how come?

c. there's always the sneap samples...

 

[luismars]

the ddrums are the easy and professional ones, the quality of DIY triggers depends on your skills to build them, actually it's pretty easy to build some cheap and acceptable ones, and for the price they're a "must try"

 

[DullElysium]

Well you could get the red shot set for 99€.

If you're handy you can try to go DIY and it might or might not work foe your needs.

Anyways, you say you don't have proper kit or room acoustics. So if we compare triggerset+drumagog+sneap samples that are recorded in a good sounding room with a good sounding kit, good mics and a professional engineer to a cheap 300€ drum mic set with not so good sounding drums or room. Wich one would sound better? In the end it's all about the result.

I get it that you'd like to use actual mics but if you're in a tight budget i'd say get some triggers and then save up for the mics one by one.

Edit: and if you go trigger be sure to search for the erkan's organized sample library. It's basically a collection of sneapsters samples nicely organized in folders.

 

[Dalinkwent48@aim.com]

6 peizos off the internet for 2 bucks, 6 1/4" female inputs $1 ea, some wire = 6 triggers for under 10 bucks

win.

Basically hes telling you that those are the components of a what a drum trigger is. Its a piezo transducer. Basically it will put a spike on the track and then once its all said and done you go in and use Slate,Superior,random drum prog of choice and load in the samples.Make sure to play with the plug though and set the sensitivity otherwise you'll have mistriggers all over the place. Mix, then profit.

 

[Arsenu,]

thanks for all the advice guys!

the red shot set actually looks good and the price is decent enough! i think i'll go with that.
thing is that with a 10$ DIY mic that looks like shit people are most likely to take me for an amateur, and as an amateur i'd rather avoid that .

i wonder, tough, what's the difference between the red shot set and these which makes them worth a 100 euros more?

and if wer'e over the trigger mics, what would you suggest as good OH PAIR which is not over about 300-400 used?

 

[DullElysium]

Well the redshots basically seem to be stripped versions of the pro's.

-Cheaper built
-6,3mm input instead of XLR
-Redshot's don't respond to rimshots if your drum module could handle them

I just thought that if i decide to buy a drum module it'd be better to have the pros from the beginning.

Basically they both do the same thing.

And as for the overheads I've heard good things about the Oktava MK012-01's:
http://www.thomann.de/fi/oktava_mk_01201_black_msp2_matched_p.htm

I found them in use:
Ofcourse some nice sounding cymbals play a big part in oh mics

EDIT: seems like thomann had a little sample of their own. But for an acoustic guitar.

 

[Trevoire520]

Don't bother with the Ddrums, they work great until they break. Normally halfway through a session.

Go on ebay and search for Drumdial triggers. Very cheap (I get them shipped to me from the USA for about £13 total) and very well built.

 

[guitarguru777]

Drumdials rock!! I use them myself ... BUT if you want a decent set of drum mics for very little money

I bought these and use them for all my drums:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Digital-Reference-DRDK4-4-Piece-Drum-Mic-Kit-105931539-i1532398.gc

They are not a horrible sounding set by any means. This next clip was recorded with those mic's a set of Sterling Audio ST 31's as over heads, and a SM57 on the Snare.

http://www.jasoncohenitservices.com/Drum_Test.wav

Sure the sound isnt PERFECT and it doesnt sound like it has $10,000 work of mics on the kit, but it sure as hell IS a usable sound. NONE of that was Sample replaced. Of course this was also recorded in a perfectly treated room on an AMAZING kit, but you get the idea.

 

[setyouranchor]

Drumdials rock!! I use them myself ... BUT if you want a decent set of drum mics for very little money

I bought these and use them for all my drums:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Digital-Reference-DRDK4-4-Piece-Drum-Mic-Kit-105931539-i1532398.gc

They are not a horrible sounding set by any means. This next clip was recorded with those mic's a set of Sterling Audio ST 31's as over heads, and a SM57 on the Snare.

http://www.jasoncohenitservices.com/Drum_Test.wav

Sure the sound isnt PERFECT and it doesnt sound like it has $10,000 work of mics on the kit, but it sure as hell IS a usable sound. NONE of that was Sample replaced. Of course this was also recorded in a perfectly treated room on an AMAZING kit, but you get the idea.

Wow! Thanks for that link Jason! Only £75 for a set of drum mics aint to shabby and the clip you posted sounds pretty damn good.

 

[guitarguru777]

Thats kit had 2 year old heads on it too .... LOL

A good room, and a GREAT kit make a huge difference. I have used these same mics on shitty drum kits and of course they sound like shit. Dont think you will get results like this out of just "any kit". Took some major EQ, comp and post processing to get that shit sounding like that. Although i do like the kick mic quite a bit. Its got a D6 kinda flavor to it once you scoop the mids on it.

Definitely a usable tone on those drums just nothing spectacular.

 

[AllanD]

That kick sounds really good, what kind of head was it?

 

[guitarguru777]

That kick sounds really good, what kind of head was it?

Kick was an EMAD, toms were G2 Clears, Snare was Evans power center

 

[MatrixClaw]

Don't bother with the Ddrums, they work great until they break. Normally halfway through a session.

Go on ebay and search for Drumdial triggers. Very cheap (I get them shipped to me from the USA for about £13 total) and very well built.

+10,000. I've had both and the Drumdials are much, much better.

 

[Arsenu,]

thanks for all the great advice!

i'll go with the DrumDial, you've saved me the frustration of having the Ddrums break at the first session (which would probably would have made cry haha)
it's pretty cheap and no point in paying extra for something that does the same job

it might take me some time to get a good drum kit and a treated room, hence why i don't even bother buying expansive mics or mixing the actual kit...

i suppose for a start a decent workstation w/16 or 8X input interface + 5 trigger mics + decent OH and room mic + decent cymbals on rubbish drum kit,
DI for guitars and bass which i already have
and an sm7/some other middle-class vocal mic = win!

 

[acappa]

The best drum mikes I´ve ever tried are thomanns dc400, 200€ replica of shure´s, I´ve recorded good stuff with them

 

[DullElysium]

It's kinda strange I haven't had any problems with the ddrums. But I guess time will tell