Trivium - Shogun (Colin god damn you...)

Melb_shredder

Orpheus: Melodic Death
Mar 9, 2008
2,852
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Melbourne
I know this album was meant to be OH SO NATURAL and it's blatantly not.. But holy shit. I haven't listened to it in a while and was loving In Waves but Ermz seemed to point out a few times (I think maybe just guitars, not sure haha) that he much preferred Shogun and I couldn't understand why... But now that I've gone back and started listening again (Musicwise not because of the production) but hot damn... It's a fucking killer mix.

Everything sits really well and the guitars are fuller and less fatiguing on Shogun. And.. I want that fucking Snare... I'm actually in love with that Snare!

Thoughts on that mix anyone?
 
Those two albums are the reason why I love Colin Richardson. Like you musicwise and mixwise I prefer Shogun over In Waves. The guitars are overly powerful in the mids but somehow not honky and cloud up the mix, they are really soft and as a result the mix has no fatigue factor to it.

I heard somewhere that Colin used Slate Snare 22 (the original not 22a) blended with the original. I have found that mixing snare 22a and Green Snare, compress for less decay, small high shelf a dB or two at around 5KHz and a hall based reverb gets you pretty damn close to that snare sound. I noticed a huge part of the glue that happens in Colin's mixes is how everything including the guitars compress in the mix. It sounds like he hits the master bus comp pretty hard and may even have hefty buss compression on all the stems as well, add that with some obvious automation and you get one hell of a dynamic mix.

One weird thing I did notice on the mix, I pulled on up in my DAW, "Torn between Scylla and Charybdis" and noticed the kick when it first comes in exactly peaks at 0dB, without clipping the top of the signal, and as soon as the whole mix comes in, even summed up with the rest of the mix, the kick still at 0dB with no clipping. Snare is the same too. Its as if he sidechained the rest of the mix, including the other drum tracks to the kick and snare and maybe even utilized some look ahead limiters in conjunction. That might be why it is so damn punchy considering the waveform looks like it was mastered as heavy as Death Magnetic. It is interesting to see a mix that heavily hit and every transient is still there, without any limiting, clipping or distortion and still have those transients really stick out of the mix.
 
i agree... shogun is one of my favorite metal mixes period. although i prefer the in waves guitar tone...
 
Those two albums are the reason why I love Colin Richardson. Like you musicwise and mixwise I prefer Shogun over In Waves. The guitars are overly powerful in the mids but somehow not honky and cloud up the mix, they are really soft and as a result the mix has no fatigue factor to it.

I heard somewhere that Colin used Slate Snare 22 (the original not 22a) blended with the original. I have found that mixing snare 22a and Green Snare, compress for less decay, small high shelf a dB or two at around 5KHz and a hall based reverb gets you pretty damn close to that snare sound. I noticed a huge part of the glue that happens in Colin's mixes is how everything including the guitars compress in the mix. It sounds like he hits the master bus comp pretty hard and may even have hefty buss compression on all the stems as well, add that with some obvious automation and you get one hell of a dynamic mix.

One weird thing I did notice on the mix, I pulled on up in my DAW, "Torn between Scylla and Charybdis" and noticed the kick when it first comes in exactly peaks at 0dB, without clipping the top of the signal, and as soon as the whole mix comes in, even summed up with the rest of the mix, the kick still at 0dB with no clipping. Snare is the same too. Its as if he sidechained the rest of the mix, including the other drum tracks to the kick and snare and maybe even utilized some look ahead limiters in conjunction. That might be why it is so damn punchy considering the waveform looks like it was mastered as heavy as Death Magnetic. It is interesting to see a mix that heavily hit and every transient is still there, without any limiting, clipping or distortion and still have those transients really stick out of the mix.

Interesting, thanks for this :)

yeah, I prefer shogun beside in waves mixes. I almost use shogun album for reference while I'm mixing metal. love shogun mixes, especially that guitar sounds on shogun album haha. Could be my fav guitar tone beside the black dahlia murder deflorate.
 
I noticed a huge part of the glue that happens in Colin's mixes is how everything including the guitars compress in the mix. It sounds like he hits the master bus comp pretty hard and may even have hefty buss compression on all the stems as well, add that with some obvious automation and you get one hell of a dynamic mix.

So I'm sure this doesn't apply to all or even most of his mixes, but I got to take a peak in one of the sessions he mixed for The Powerless Rise. He actually had ZERO master bus compression. Just a tiny but of Massey CT4 on the guitar bus. I'm talking like 3dB. Everything else looked pretty standard. CLA comps on a few things. I didn't see any trickery. Just the right automation in the right place. I kinda pissed me off because he was using all the same plugins I have (CLA comps, MAssey, Metric Halo, and thats about it) but god damn it.... He has golden ears, and enough experience to get things where he wants in as few moves as possible.
 
I know there was a premix of one of the Shogun songs that really was natural, I really liked that one, and the album sounded completelly different in the end. Still not a bad mix that ended up on the CD.
 
Can you share some more info on what Colin did in the Powerless Rise? For example what reverbs did he use? What samples did he use? How much gain reduction on bass-snare-vocals? Any info can be useful
 
Can you share some more info on what Colin did in the Powerless Rise? For example what reverbs did he use? What samples did he use? How much gain reduction on bass-snare-vocals? Any info can be useful

His own samples, stock digiverb, and I don't know how much GR. I don't think it was all that much. The biggest thing I can say about it is that I saw nothing out of the ordinary. You're not going to gain much by knowing what reverb he used, cuz I didn't. Every song/ production is different. Mixing is all about experience and applying the tools CORRECTLY. It's all about the years and the ears.
 
I really like both albums, music and productionwise, and I think either production fits the SONGS on those albums the best
 
I really love how big and powerful the guitars are on Shogun. It's a great record. Anyone know more about the mic placement and setup on Shogun?

I know for In Waves, Colin used 421's exclusively with 2 different mesa cabs (Oversized and a Recto Cab) through a 5150. Oh and keep in mind there was a tube screamer in front of the amp I believe.
 
So I'm sure this doesn't apply to all or even most of his mixes, but I got to take a peak in one of the sessions he mixed for The Powerless Rise. He actually had ZERO master bus compression. Just a tiny but of Massey CT4 on the guitar bus. I'm talking like 3dB. Everything else looked pretty standard. CLA comps on a few things. I didn't see any trickery. Just the right automation in the right place. I kinda pissed me off because he was using all the same plugins I have (CLA comps, MAssey, Metric Halo, and thats about it) but god damn it.... He has golden ears, and enough experience to get things where he wants in as few moves as possible.

Could of very well been in the mastering, look ahead limiters and sidechaining the stems.

On both Trivium albums being mentioned on in this thread, the drums do have a lot of compression though, more than typical Colin mixes.

I really love how big and powerful the guitars are on Shogun. It's a great record. Anyone know more about the mic placement and setup on Shogun?

I know for In Waves, Colin used 421's exclusively with 2 different mesa cabs (Oversized and a Recto Cab) through a 5150. Oh and keep in mind there was a tube screamer in front of the amp I believe.

Shogun was the same as In Waves, dual mic'd with an MD421 and SM57. From the recording videos/DVD of both albums and what Colin has mentioned it was a 1960B on Shogun, and it would look like a Mesa Stiletto was used on In Waves (kind of sounds like it too). I could be wrong about In Waves though.
 
I read an interview somewhere with Colin (not sure where, can't find it right now) where he said for in waves they tried a bunch of different 5150s but ended up using the original block letter
 
I read an interview somewhere with Colin (not sure where, can't find it right now) where he said for in waves they tried a bunch of different 5150s but ended up using the original block letter

This.

Also I think for Shogun Matt mentioned something about using an Maxon OD808 in front of the amps for his tone but this was early 2008 so it was a long time ago. I don't remember if he said it in a video or what.