Turning down shows

[ChrisTanakaCanwell]

Does anyone else here get offered a bunch of non-paying gigs with shitty unknown bands and shitty promotion? We're all getting tired of playing them but don't want to piss off the venue owners/bands that stay in contact with us.

The last time the main metal venue in my town asked us to play a show (with a really terrible out of town band, which means they would get the entire door, not draw a crowd, and scare off people that might come to watch us), I offered to make a flyer, book the other opening bands, and promote the show heavily for a small guarantee (less than $40/person) and he hasn't talked to me since.

Everyone that I ask advice from locally is either like ¯\(°_o)/¯ or they think we're elitists for not playing all of these shows. What would you guys do?

 

[Wisheraser]

It's elitist to have a problem with working for free? Fuck any person who thinks that's acceptable. The only times my bands have played for free have been when we've offered to give our cut to the touring band cause turnout was poor and they were cool/needed it more.

 

[DanLights]

Most venue owners/promoters seem to be totally convinced they're doing bands a favor by offering them shitty non-paying gigs, and the fact so many bands (shitty and not) keep gladly taking them helps spread the thought. We're all screwed, really.

 

[luismars]

Don't play for free. It's your job and you deserve your payment as everyone else, ask them to hire 5 plumbers to fix something at midnight. Then demand half the money they charge them. Life's not fair.

 

[botus99]

Most venue owners/promoters seem to be totally convinced they're doing bands a favor by offering them shitty non-paying gigs, and the fact so many bands (shitty and not) keep gladly taking them helps spread the thought. We're all screwed, really.

+1

I don't have a band anymore, I miss playing shows... but never THOSE shows

 

[Sloan]

Never play in your hometown unless it's New York, LA, Nashville, or Atlanta and can draw 500+.

If you don't meet that criteria, ALWAYS play out of town. Swap shows with bands from places at least 100 miles away. Be an exotic out of town band.

 

[Charlie E.]

Never play in your hometown unless it's New York, LA, Nashville, or Atlanta and can draw 500+.

If you don't meet that criteria, ALWAYS play out of town. Swap shows with bands from places at least 100 miles away. Be an exotic out of town band.

So they can then be that band then? "The last time the main metal venue in my town asked us to play a show (with a really terrible out of town band, which means they would get the entire door, not draw a crowd, and scare off people that might come to watch us)"

lol

 

[bryan_kilco]

I don't mind playing for free once in a while, as long as something positive comes from it.

It's tough enough to push 25 tickets around here let alone 50 or 100.

The one time we raked in $500 for 50 tix at a local venue, and the guy was like "wanna open for xxxx band on a Tuesday night, 100 tickets?"

We declined that shit.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

I don't mind playing for free once in a while, as long as something positive comes from it.

It's tough enough to push 25 tickets around here let alone 50 or 100.

The one time we raked in $500 for 50 tix at a local venue, and the guy was like "wanna open for xxxx band on a Tuesday night, 100 tickets?"

We declined that shit.

Yeah, local bands these days cannot get 50 tickets sold let alone 100. Even "smaller" national acts can't do that at least in the metal world. Its sad to see, but the local scenes have dwindled.

 

[smy1]

It really is only cause most of these bands are shit or suck at marketing. Or both. Sorry, but that is the truth.

If I was a venue owner, I would never pay a band that draws 25-50 people. Pure logic and economics demand that ...

 

[amarshism]

Crazy America with bands selling tickets and shit. That's what promoters are for.

 

[bryan_kilco]

It really is only cause most of these bands are shit or suck at marketing. Or both. Sorry, but that is the truth.

If I was a venue owner, I would never pay a band that draws 25-50 people. Pure logic and economics demand that ...

Why not? That band brought in 25-50 people at probably around $10 a ticket. Plus, if there's food/bar there. Figure you have 4-5 bands that all brought $250 to $500, raking in $1,000-$3,000, and the promotor/booker doesnt really have to do shit.

I could see if you are in a highly populated area such as NY, Philly, Cali, etc, that a bigger draw would be much easier. For bands that live in the middle of nowhere, and aren't still in highschool, its pretty damn tough to drag 10 friends out to a show let alone 50-100.

I hate the whole thing. We've paid out of our band fund to make up for a few unsold tickets. Made us look good to the booker, yeah, got offered to open for a national act, great. In the end, it didn't help us with a fanbase or anything positive except we got paid $50 back out of the $500 we brought in.

 

[drew_drummer]

There is a promoter here in London called Monto. They fucking suck balls. Loads of bands have sent them snotty responses to their shitty keelhaul emails. I've asked them to remove us from their books so many times, but we still keep getting the emails. Fucking ballbags. Shitty promoters can eat grilled elephant dick with a precum sauce.

 

[bryan_kilco]

From my experience around here, the "promoters" are only looking out for themselves.

We played a gig once where the smoke machine set off the fire alarm. the venue had to be evacuated, fire trucks came, false alarm, bands start playing again....but there was over an hour of time lost. We had already played and were just hanging out watching the rest of the bands, and our promoter asked us "You guys hanging out for a while? Mind helping the bands break down and set up to make up some lost time?"

Like, really dude?!?!

 

[Line666]

It really is only cause most of these bands are shit or suck at marketing. Or both. Sorry, but that is the truth.

If I was a venue owner, I would never pay a band that draws 25-50 people. Pure logic and economics demand that ...

Can you go into a bit more depth/give a bit more insight Sami. How would you counter that; assuming its a marketing issue not the bands in question being terrible. Whats your strategy?

 

[drew_drummer]

I think he'd wait till the band could draw 51 people, and then pay them.

 

[Line666]

I think he'd wait till the band could draw 51 people, and then pay them.

Yeah, I uh... don't really agree with that part that's why I'm asking , figured I'd ask though and give the benefit of the doubt because he normally talks a lot of sense and has a lot of good ideas.

 

[smy1]

Well, if it's 4 bands bringing in 50 ppl each at $10/person then that's a $2000 door and at least a $500 bar, so then I'd pay them. I was under the impression that 25-50 people was the total attendance ...

 

[drew_drummer]

Well, if it's 4 bands bringing in 50 ppl each at $10/person then that's a $2000 door and at least a $500 bar, so then I'd pay them. I was under the impression that 25-50 people was the total attendance ...

If I was a venue owner, I would never pay a band that draws 25-50 people. Pure logic and economics demand that ...

Not trying to be pissy... but that isn't how what you said came across - it sounded like you were talking about a single band. Everyone else seemed to be talking about the night as a whole.

 

[drew_drummer]

Also... when we did our album launch, we just hired a venue. £200 if the bar didn't break £750, £100 if the bar broke £750 but not £1000, and free hire if the bar broke £1000. We charged £5 per ticket, printed them up ourselves just through one of those DIY ticket online places. All the ticket money was ours to keep - actually we split it between all four bands playing.

Long story short - bar hit £1093. Free hire. Every band went away with £60, and we sold tons of albums and tons of merch, and went away with a nice tidy profit.

Only shit thing about the night was the soundman fucking up our stage sound. Sounded okay out front though apparently.

To me... this is the way to do it. Fuck promoters. Hire a venue that is reasonable for your own popularity, and put on a night of epic proportions. Fuck playing the circuits .... they're whack.