Turning down shows
- Thread starter ChrisTanakaCanwell
- Start date
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
That's cool for a one-off, special show; how are you supposed to do the same thing on a 30-stop, 6 week tour?
HCL
Holy Crap! Lions!
Why would you not want to help out? Getting enough money to make gigging worth it is one thing but helping out is what differentiates a good scene from a shit one. That and decent audiences.
What is wrong with playing free sometimes really? Do you like to perform or not? Or are you in it for the money wich you are never gonna get? Why would you make the exception when there is a poor turnout, and give your cut to the touring band? Since they are touring, they were headliner probably? If ppl didnt turned up... there is a reason for that, might be the band is not that good they claim to be, or the venue owner or promotor or whatever was to lazy to advertise it..., might be also bad luck, no reason you have to pay for, unless you asked more then you deserve. The touring bands mostly have their shit together already. (i can believe touring is expensive - albums are recorded, cd's and merch is printed, it just needs to get sold)
Image you are headlining a local event, with what you call crappy bands, and then decline to play for free, so you do get paid, but then there is a poor show up (ticket price to high for example - cause the owner needs to pay you), and you are not selling any merch iether. You should rethink your attitude really.
Playing in a band costs money, alot, gear costs money, and its so fun to buy this, but having a 2000 dollar guitar and 4000 dollar halfstack behind you isnt gonna make your songs any better (i am not saying your music sucks, i have no idea what music you play so,...), also think your personal gear purchases shouldnt influence what you ask to play
ps: we mostly get payed, and there is always merch to sell
Image you are headlining a local event, with what you call crappy bands, and then decline to play for free, so you do get paid, but then there is a poor show up (ticket price to high for example - cause the owner needs to pay you), and you are not selling any merch iether. You should rethink your attitude really.
Playing in a band costs money, alot, gear costs money, and its so fun to buy this, but having a 2000 dollar guitar and 4000 dollar halfstack behind you isnt gonna make your songs any better (i am not saying your music sucks, i have no idea what music you play so,...), also think your personal gear purchases shouldnt influence what you ask to play
ps: we mostly get payed, and there is always merch to sell
bryan_kilco
Member
It's not that we didn't want to help out, but we were basically about to roll out soon. We went to help but the bands seemed totally fine handling everything themselves. And personally, I wouldn't want other people handling my expensive gear. But it was our band only who was asked to help. Aside from that, I heard right before this show that our promoter was a "crook"....so I wasn't too fond of him at the moment.
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
With show attendance, venues and promoters would like to see 25-50 people per band and book usually 6-7 bands (at least in my area). With tickets at $10 it is really easy to see that could make good money. If only 25-50 people per band came out, which is never the case. Even big local bands who used to sell out 300 attendance venues 6 to 7 years ago can no longer bring even 50 people to shows, not because they overplay and not because they don't shell out hard cash on promotion because they do, its because no one gives a shit to go out to shows anymore.
Even the biggest titans of local bands around my area are only bringing in maybe 50 people total in a night, that's for all the bands, the entire attendance. Some venues have a requirment to sell a certain amount of tickets, if you do not, you don't get paid, if you get past that n8umber, you make a certain number of dollars per ticket sold. The venues do this so they can stay afloat. One of the venues my band has been playing are more lenient on ticket sales, but their staff is small. But if the total attendance that night is 25-30 people at $10 a ticket, 3 security guards, a sound guy are going to basically eat $250 in wages from a 5 hour night. They have one bar tender a night and one bar tender/manager in the day. They may their money on alcohol sales and that money is all they have to pay utilities, themselves and any other business expenses. With 25-30 people, that is still not a lot of alcohol sales.
Even the biggest titans of local bands around my area are only bringing in maybe 50 people total in a night, that's for all the bands, the entire attendance. Some venues have a requirment to sell a certain amount of tickets, if you do not, you don't get paid, if you get past that n8umber, you make a certain number of dollars per ticket sold. The venues do this so they can stay afloat. One of the venues my band has been playing are more lenient on ticket sales, but their staff is small. But if the total attendance that night is 25-30 people at $10 a ticket, 3 security guards, a sound guy are going to basically eat $250 in wages from a 5 hour night. They have one bar tender a night and one bar tender/manager in the day. They may their money on alcohol sales and that money is all they have to pay utilities, themselves and any other business expenses. With 25-30 people, that is still not a lot of alcohol sales.
Macke/Crystal Light
Member
I think it really depends on the situation. I play with a couple of bands and we decide on case by case basis if we should make a free gig.
For me to do that it would need to be something else in it, like good PR or something.
There use to be a free of charge rockfestival each year in my hometown and there we always play for free. Another kind of small festival in a nearby town that´s charged for entrance, we did not agree to play for free (we knew that we would attract some extra audience for that festival).
We played for free in one of the biggest rock festivals in my country this summer for the PR (and free 3-day tickets which was worth appr. USD 200 each, so that could equal a pay of appr USD 1000 for the band..if we all would go to the festival in the first place)
So, well it depends on the situation.
For me to do that it would need to be something else in it, like good PR or something.
There use to be a free of charge rockfestival each year in my hometown and there we always play for free. Another kind of small festival in a nearby town that´s charged for entrance, we did not agree to play for free (we knew that we would attract some extra audience for that festival).
We played for free in one of the biggest rock festivals in my country this summer for the PR (and free 3-day tickets which was worth appr. USD 200 each, so that could equal a pay of appr USD 1000 for the band..if we all would go to the festival in the first place)
So, well it depends on the situation.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
You're not.
If you're a smallish independent band, touring is not a realistic option for you. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, but it isn't realistic. imho.
edit: By smallish, I'm talking about a band who has maybe 300-500 fans worldwide. A fanbase ideally needs to be within a concentrated area, for a band to gaurantee turnout. This is why the longest tour we've ever done has been four days - because we can't risk doing a 6 week 30-stop tour with our minimal fanbase.
We try to be realistic. And no, I don't think we're a shit band, and were not even that bad at marketing ourselves. But there is a huge element of chance to becoming successful, and particularly on these boards, I don't think it is recognised enough. Hard work does not always pay off.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Well what you originally said:
Seemed to imply if a single band bought 50 people to a show, you wouldn't pay them. But then you said:
So it didn't compute on my side. Anyway, I guess it's clear enough now - no point beating a dead drummer.
Bands having to sell tickets for gigs is bullshit. I'm a promoter in my city with some friends, we've 7 festivals under our belt and more than 150 shows put on at this stage. As someone else said, it's the promoters job to sell tickets. Sure the bands can help by spreading the word that they're playing but ultimately the promoters job is to get people in the door.
Playing for free sometimes just has to be done. If my band are playing support to a bigger touring act then we're not expecting to get paid. If we're playing a festival then we're not gonna get paid either. However, if we're travelling a fair amount then we like to know beforehand if we will get petrol money. If not, we'll pool together and maybe take some money from the merch we've sold.
I've no problem with bands being choosey with the gigs they play, it's their right to pick the gigs they want to do. If a band keeps asking us for gigs them turns them all down then thats annoying and worst of all are bands that keep cancelling gigs after agreeing to them. I've got a 3 strike policy I loosely stick to. Anything can happen a band once, maybe even twice that means they have to cancel but 3 times means they won't be asked to do another one my shows.
As someone else said too- don't play that often in your own city. I see bands all the time get caught up in playing the same venues over and over. They get a big crowd at first so the venues book them for a load of shows. The crowd gets smaller over time and the band gets frustrated. You're much better off starving the crowd by only playing once every few months and doing most of your shows outside your home. It's better for your band profile too to be known as a band willing to travel and work at getting gigs rather than just taking loads of local shows that people you know hand you. This way too when you do play at home it's an event and more of a big deal.
At the end of the day, venues want people in the door, preferably people who drink. Thats how they stay open. They don't really care how good the bands are all that much if they bring in huge numbers. It's tough for venues cause the overheads are high and people always ask for more and more with the guarantees.
Playing for free sometimes just has to be done. If my band are playing support to a bigger touring act then we're not expecting to get paid. If we're playing a festival then we're not gonna get paid either. However, if we're travelling a fair amount then we like to know beforehand if we will get petrol money. If not, we'll pool together and maybe take some money from the merch we've sold.
I've no problem with bands being choosey with the gigs they play, it's their right to pick the gigs they want to do. If a band keeps asking us for gigs them turns them all down then thats annoying and worst of all are bands that keep cancelling gigs after agreeing to them. I've got a 3 strike policy I loosely stick to. Anything can happen a band once, maybe even twice that means they have to cancel but 3 times means they won't be asked to do another one my shows.
As someone else said too- don't play that often in your own city. I see bands all the time get caught up in playing the same venues over and over. They get a big crowd at first so the venues book them for a load of shows. The crowd gets smaller over time and the band gets frustrated. You're much better off starving the crowd by only playing once every few months and doing most of your shows outside your home. It's better for your band profile too to be known as a band willing to travel and work at getting gigs rather than just taking loads of local shows that people you know hand you. This way too when you do play at home it's an event and more of a big deal.
At the end of the day, venues want people in the door, preferably people who drink. Thats how they stay open. They don't really care how good the bands are all that much if they bring in huge numbers. It's tough for venues cause the overheads are high and people always ask for more and more with the guarantees.
