Upgrade Interface, or Not?

[MatrixClaw]

Right now, I'm using a Saffire Pro 40 (with a Behringer ADA8000 through ADAT), and while it's served me well the past few years, I'd like to upgrade to something with better conversion and pres, as long as it's going to be a noticeable upgrade. I'm looking at the following right now:

• Steinberg MR816X / UR824
  -I've heard these hang well with higher end interfaces, but the drivers are a bit of a hit and miss. I hear the AD is great, but the DA is pretty poor. They're cheap, though, and if it can hang with the rest of the interfaces on this list, it's certainly something I'll highly consider.
• Allen & Heath ZED R16
  -I've heard the API shootout and all the buzz around here lately which have really given me GAS for this, but I've yet to hear much about the converters, and how it stacks up to the rest of these interfaces. Analogue EQ and summing, as well as DAW control intrigues me.
• Universal Audio Apollo DUO
  -Heard some pretty great stuff about this interface, but it's not out to the public yet, as far as I know. 2 grand for 4 preamps kinda scares me, but if it's worth it, I'm all for it. Don't think I'll really need the Thunderbolt, but you never know. Not sure whether the plugins are "better" than what I have, though?
• Lynx TWO + ADAT preamp
  -Someone on Gearslutz recently mentioned this route to me, and it seems interesting, since the conversion of the Lynx is supposed to be excellent, and I can pick one up used for ~$600. What I'd have left over should be enough to get a pretty nice 2-4 channel preamp to use with it, but as far as I can tell, it would need to connect via ADAT or SPDIF? Not really experienced in the PCI stuff, but the ultra low latency and excellent conversion would be nice.
• RME FF400 / FF800
  -I'm kinda skeptical about RME stuff. I know they get a TON of praise around the internet, but I had a UFX here I was trying out a few months ago, and I had nothing but issues with that thing. The features it DID have were great, but the preamps weren't particularly great, and the conversion didn't seem like it was anywhere near worth $1800 extra over my Saffire. The FF400 and 800 are in a much more comfortable price point for me on the used market, though.
• Black Lion Audio 2626
  -Someone told me they used to own a FF800 and a Digi 003 and they bought this unit and got rid of the other two immediately, because the BLA one was better. I've used the regular 2626 before and I much preferred my Saffire, especially since it is much more stable, but if BLA can work wonders on that thing, I'm all for it.
• Metric Halo ULN-2
  -Mac only, so I wouldn't be able to use it till I upgrade my computer, but I'm not in TOO big of a rush, if it's going to be worth it. I'm currently a college student, so I should be able to qualify for their 25% discount, which means I can get this interface for a STEAL. I could afford the 2882 and have more preamps and inserts, but with only 42db of gain, I'd rather have 2 higher end ones at @ 72db, at a cheaper price, and be able to buy one or two decent outboard pres. I've heard nothing but rave reviews of the Metric Halo stuff.
• MOTU MK3
  -I've heard of issues with drivers (similar to the Steinberg units), but also that they're on par with the RME stuff in sound quality. This one's kinda at the bottom of my list right now, but for the price, it's certainly intriguing.
• Apogee Ensemble
  -I've heard great things about Apogee gear, but I have no first hand experience, as I have never owned a Mac to use them with. Since I'll be upgrading my computer, and have already included the Metric Halo in my search, I might as well consider Apogee as well. Like the Apollo, though, 2 grand for 4 pres is really stretching it.

Additional Info:

• Running Windows 7 x64 Pro, but planning on dual booting OSX Lion soon
• Mainly recording rock and metal
• Occasional live drums: ~12 mics at once on some projects (but I could probably do with 2-4 for now, or get by with my ADA8000 preamps and triggers)
• Need low latency for recording direct guitars into amp sims, with virtual instruments, and vocals with effects (built in DSP for tracking would be cool)
• Already have Waves Gold and T-Racks3 Deluxe w/ the Black/White singles
• Running Reaper as my main DAW (though I own PT9 and S1 Pro), but I will most likely be moving to Cubase 6 or Logic Pro, after I decide on an upgrade route.

Budget: ~$2000 USD (preferably lower, as I'll probably buy used, or at a discount), price includes selling my Saffire

What would you suggest? Are there any other options I'm overlooking (especially PCI)?

Thanks guys!

 

[Empathy]

If you can afford it, the Apollo. Looks like a wet dream come true.

 

[MatrixClaw]

If you can afford it, the Apollo. Looks like a wet dream come true.

Any particular reason why?



The more I research the Metric Halo stuff, the more it intrigues me. At the price I can get it for, if it's as good as I've read, then I'd be more than happy with it, I think.

It's a bummer it's Mac only, but not a big deal, since it's not going to be moved between computers often, if ever. If the Apollo is as great as people are hoping it will be, I'm certainly willing to shell out the extra cash, but for now, it's kinda reaching at it's price range, for only 4 preamps.

However, at the same time, the FF400/800 are interesting, because you can pick them up pretty damn cheap on the used market right now - I'm just skeptical about the conversion being noticeably better than what I have now, and I know their preamps aren't anything to write home about. TotalMix is AWESOME, though...

 

[chrisrivalry]

Get the Zed. Had a few hiccups in the beginning from a bad firewire card, something was wrong when they originally came out but they fixed it for me. Awesome conversion, and you can't beat 16 microphone inputs.

 

[MatrixClaw]

I think I've got it narrowed down to 3 right now:

1. Metric Halo ULN-2
- Seems to have the best conversion and preamps for the price, but it doesn't have any analogue inserts to add external pres, so it'd all need to be done via ADAT or SPDIF (not a huge deal, but as far as I can tell, it limits the maximum number of inputs to 12 - 2 in the preamp, 8 via ADAT, 2 via SPDIF). This is still the cheapest option though, and I think even with a max of 10 inputs, I should be able to get by; if I need more for drums, I can just track triggers via MIDI. Quality > Quantity. I like this idea, because it'll leave me with plenty of money left over to upgrade my computer to a Mac, not having to spend money outside of the original $2000 budget. DSP for tracking would be cool.

2. Apogee Ensemble
- Integrates very well with Logic, which is what I would use if I got this. The conversion and preamps seem to be quite good. I haven't necessarily heard anything bad about either, but I've also heard them equally compared to less expensive products; which is a concern. I don't really like the idea of having to control everything digitally, though. This one has 4 mic preamps built in, as well as 4 analogue inserts and 8 channels of ADAT. This is more expandable than the Metric Halo, but I'm not quite sure it's worth the extra cost. If I can get one for a good price, I'll definitely still consider it.

3. Allen & Heath ZED R16
- I really just can't get over how well the clips I've heard of these stacks up against much more expensive setups. The analogue EQs and DAW control are a huge plus, not to mention it has 16 built in preamps, and you can add 8 more via ADAT. As far as I can tell, this one has the most options, by quite a long shot; but I'm concerned whether it can truly hold its own in conversion and preamps to the two above. It's the same price as the Apogee, and the features it has far surpasses it. Plus, I don't have to upgrade my computer right away to a Mac to use it. Still, 16 preamps in the same price range as others that only have 2-4; quality has to be compromised somewhere, right?

As much as I like the Lynx idea, I'm going to be stuck with similar quality preamps to what I have already right now. If I had a larger budget, I'd definitely go with a full SCA rack, but that itself would fill nearly all my budget.

 

[Derykus]

You should be skeptical of RME stuff - it's not all that it's cracked up to be on the internet. It's good mid-range stuff, but that's it. You shouldn't bother with the FF800/400 - that stuff is almost a decade old already. The newer UFX/Babyface/Etc have pretty good DA converters however.

You can't go wrong with the Metric Halo or Apogee stuff. But you will never get great preamps from a tiny microchip that's in all interface preamps. It's just never going to replace the sound of transformers and analogue circuitry, well not any time soon anyways.

Preamps are going to make a way bigger difference than conversion. Conversion is most important for monitoring.

You do know that inserting more channels via spdif and adat will require another conversion unit right? You can't just plug analogue preamps into digital lines - another AD converter is required. The cost adds up quick.

 

[MatrixClaw]

You should be skeptical of RME stuff - it's not all that it's cracked up to be on the internet. It's good mid-range stuff, but that's it. You shouldn't bother with the FF800/400 - that stuff is almost a decade old already. The newer UFX/Babyface/Etc have pretty good DA converters however.

You can't go wrong with the Metric Halo or Apogee stuff. But you will never get great preamps from a tiny microchip that's in all interface preamps. It's just never going to replace the sound of transformers and analogue circuitry, well not any time soon anyways.

Preamps are going to make a way bigger difference than conversion. Conversion is most important for monitoring.

You do know that inserting more channels via spdif and adat will require another conversion unit right? You can't just plug analogue preamps into digital lines - another AD converter is required. The cost adds up quick.

Yes, I'd be using my ADA8000 via ADAT, then using that as inserts for better pres, as I upgrade more. I'll most likely upgrade the ADA8000 to something better down the line, but in order to really upgrade that unit to something noticably better, I'm going to have to spend about as much as my entire budget right now allows for.

My problem with getting preamps right now is that I've tried several with my Pro 40, and didn't really like the results nearly as much as I did with the UFX I had (though, the UFX was giving me a ton of issues, though - Weird, because I've always heard RME described as being "rock solid" on drivers). The Pro 40 uses the same circuit in both its XLR and 1/4" inputs, so you're going through its mic pres all the time. Supposedly, you can "bypass" them, but setting the preamp volume to unity gain, but my own experience doing so, didn't produce the results I was really hoping for (using a Universal Audio 2-610, GAP PRE-73 and an API 3124+).

I'm REALLY liking the Metric Halo, because the features it has, for the price they go for used, is pretty great. But, at the same time, I could also go with the Apogee, which I think would work a bit better for what I ultimately want. The A&H is quite intriguing, but I'm still a bit skeptical.



Most of what I'm recording will only use 1-2 preamps, anyway. It's rare that I track live drums, but when I do, I'd like to have enough preamps for a 5 piece with 2 overheads (minimum 7 preamps - though, 10 would be ideal for a second mic on the snare and 2 room mics; or if I happen to get a bigger set in here - I once recorded a 9 piece set with 14 cymbals).