Ursäkta mig, mr V!

N

Nazgash

New Metal Member
Mar 28, 2004
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Tjäna, mr V!
What so transcendental did you find in the pi number? That's imho is just an ordinary irrational number if viewed form mathematic's position. Do you really think that number theory is a domain of knowledge, that allow us to discover secrets of being? I don't think so. I'm studing now at mathematics department(3rd course), so i had listened a number theory course and didn't find there anything useful. Would you please elucidate yoyr viewing of the pi number?

Hails from Russia!
 
Nazgash said:
Tjäna, mr V!
What so transcendental did you find in the pi number? That's imho is just an ordinary irrational number if viewed form mathematic's position. Do you really think that number theory is a domain of knowledge, that allow us to discover secrets of being? I don't think so. I'm studing now at mathematics department(3rd course), so i had listened a number theory course and didn't find there anything useful. Would you please elucidate yoyr viewing of the pi number?

Hails from Russia!
Click to expand...
The beauty I find id PI is that it's blessed with a rational and irrational sequences...and it's that synthesis of the theisis and anti- thesis makes it interesting from several perspectives. To find a 216 nr long sequence that casts some light over the abstraction. And I feel that ,what Ferdinand Lindeman discovered within Pi is something that I want to explore and know more about, to see the essence of it in nature's design is very imaginative at least to me. Of course there's a lot of other formulas that are equally interesting, like the Fermat formula..etc...but we choose Pi to gaze trough....

mr V
 
I'm very honoured to answered by you, mr V :) , and completely agree that transcendental number like Pi, Fi (the harmonic number), end E (exponent) indeed have graet philosophical value. But as matematician (i am matematician), i can't fully comprehend the only philosophical way of discovering the world around us, so that's why i have asked you.

Thanx for complete answer.

P.S. What univercity did you graduate from?
 
On the contrary, I am neither amazed by nor caring about the number pi. Sure it is an important factor in many ways but it is not the number 3.14159265358979323846... that does anything new. It is an "artifact" of our understanding of nature. Decimal system of numbers, that was invented by Arabs several centuries back, did not explain the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter correctly, so we have an irrational artifact. If someone else chooses an octal base number system, your pi will be something different. Or if that system was chosen to be based on geometry, you might end up with a pi of unity. What I am trying to say here is, we invent something and then astonished by the natural result of the invention alas the pi number. I am personally more amazed by the quantum mechanics and its implications on the way we observe things around us :)

P.S. (I know this is off-topic but I had to write)
P.P.S. (I hope this is understandable enough for everybody)
 
alperozt said:
On the contrary, I am neither amazed by nor caring about the number pi. Sure it is an important factor in many ways but it is not the number 3.14159265358979323846... that does anything new. It is an "artifact" of our understanding of nature. Decimal system of numbers, that was invented by Arabs several centuries back, did not explain the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter correctly, so we have an irrational artifact. If someone else chooses an octal base number system, your pi will be something different. Or if that system was chosen to be based on geometry, you might end up with a pi of unity. What I am trying to say here is, we invent something and then astonished by the natural result of the invention alas the pi number. I am personally more amazed by the quantum mechanics and its implications on the way we observe things around us :)

P.S. (I know this is off-topic but I had to write)
P.P.S. (I hope this is understandable enough for everybody)
Click to expand...
of course it's an artifact...I mean everything that's read by us is an artifact..and so everything is, if you 're drastic about it. Like Maxwell said "The only laws of matter are those which our mind must fabricate, but the only laws of mind are fabricated by matter" we try to understand the world with tools that are shaping the laws, that we try to explore. It's like the TOE, Theory of Everything...the theory itself just let us know as much as we're capable of. We try to understand that theory, but still the theory builds the understanding.

mr V
 
Vintersorg said:
"The only laws of matter are those which our mind must fabricate, but the only laws of mind are fabricated by matter"
Click to expand...
Why did they print that on TFB poster and not on the VFTSG poster??
 
alperozt said:
On the contrary, I am neither amazed by nor caring about the number pi. Sure it is an important factor in many ways but it is not the number 3.14159265358979323846... that does anything new. It is an "artifact" of our understanding of nature. Decimal system of numbers, that was invented by Arabs several centuries back, did not explain the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter correctly, so we have an irrational artifact. If someone else chooses an octal base number system, your pi will be something different. Or if that system was chosen to be based on geometry, you might end up with a pi of unity. What I am trying to say here is, we invent something and then astonished by the natural result of the invention alas the pi number. I am personally more amazed by the quantum mechanics and its implications on the way we observe things around us :)

P.S. (I know this is off-topic but I had to write)
P.P.S. (I hope this is understandable enough for everybody)[/QUOTE

Of course the quantity of things always depends on the base number system chosen for representation. But pi is´nt something DIFFERENT in octal base number system, the ratio stays the same (would be bad if it wasn´t so when changing base number systems), just the numbers look differently... :loco:

I like the philosophical approach to science Mr. V has, because if you look to a school book, everything is reduced to formulas, everything seems to be working according to the simple principle: Take the formula, fill in the variables => result! You can calculate the gravitation between the earth and moon within seconds, if you have the correct formula, and you know why it doesnt fall from the sky or drifts away from earth, but its still impressive to go outside at night and watch the moon. Or to take pi again: everyone knows that a circle isn´t a square, but pi expresses how extreme this difference is. Of course, thinking about complex things like quantum physics is extremely cool as well...
Click to expand...
 
A paradox: It's impossible to know exact both radius and circumference of the circle.

Lets say the radius is exact 6, so the circumference is "about" 37,6991118...(2*r*pi) and it's impossible to find the exact value.
And vice versa - lets say the circumference is exact 10, so the radius is "about" 1,5915494... and it's impossible to find the exact value.

A conclusion: It's impossible to know everything :erk:
 
Yeaahhh...The subject I have published looks great since last time I was here.
But let me tell few things.
First, 2 Boris T: You're right and wrong at the same time... I know that's a little offtop, but I have to scatter your incorrect opinion... :)
We consider lenght of a circle to be IRRATIONAL number, so we can just imagine that it is found using common formulas as precise as we wish. Of course, approximization always will hold till finite order after comma in our decimal system of calculus. (Saying more simply, set of rational numbers is everywhere dense in IRRATIONAL (matematisk analys, årskurs 1))

2 corrado: You are absolutely right. Although I am not very specialized in number theory, but Pi number (and all other irrational numbers) are invariants of calculus systems (one can even use calculus system based on 17, 14,67 and so on).

Thanx for attention
 
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