using a limiter on bass guitar?

[Hotstuff]

Concerning bass in metal,

I limit it all the time!

Waves L1 or Digidesign Maxim works great on bass usually 6db gain reduction and about 8db output followed by a comp, 1176 etc.
We dont want bass poping in and out all the time especially if the player has no sense of dynamics.
Pin the bass down so that it has an even level throughout the song and automate it if needed.
I sometime also limit guitars and then automate the parts (verses, choruses etc)

Hope this helps

 

[Ermz]

Well that's a nice page from the book of CLA. Automation is excellent in artificially adding movement to tracks. Suppose in this era of over-compression, it's all we have to retain dynamics of some kind. I'm still not entirely sold on pinning the bass so hard with a limiter, but thinking about it backwards, one could always even the bass out, then add the transient punch back in with medium attack compression.

 

[Skinny Viking]

I've tried both (limit or compress) and always go back to using compression. Attack times really vary as it is completely up to how the bassist plays. However, I do want those dynamics in there, at least for my own stuff. Using automation as the sole means of adding movement to me is equal to using impulses vs a cab & mic. You can get close and some really good results but nothing beats the real thing. True not all players have a fantastic sense of dynamics but thats what compression is for anyway. I think trying to get all sections of a song recorded so that the dynamics are somewhat level throughout is actually something to be handled in tracking. Of course this does not apply to every situation but ideally speaking why would anyone take a well recorded bass track and just squeeze or push the ever lovin shit out of it? You want a bass breathing a bit ... yes, even in metal although how much you should let it breathe is really determined by the song itself I think

For my stuff, we use a fast attack on compression ... my bass player is a finger player and really strikes the strings ... the stuff I track on bass I use a pick for it and tend to emulate his attack just to keep things consistent. I'll go with somewhere around 4ms of attack, somewhere around 6db of gain reduction and no more than 2 db of gain makeup. If its still quieter after gain makeup than with the comp bypassed, I'll just bring the fader up a little. To me it really does add more life to a song to not have the bass sound like its programmed or something

 

[Seizure.]

I useally distort bass so much during recording that i allready pretty much have a brickwall allready!

After that its mostly the L1, or a compressor if i'm realy looking for some kind of effect on bass.

 

[greyskull]

not those settings though...

 

[Seizure.]

I never liked a 1176 as much as i love my custom Daoc compressor... the transformers added an awesome color to the sound, but i like the hard and softknee tube compression on the daoc (la2a like btw..) alot better!

 

[Metaltastic]

if its metal, you'll probably want some compression, but not limiting, because all the fast note movement in combination with limiting will make the bass seem kinda like "a guy that never stops humming behind the music"

Hahahahhahahahahaahahaha, that's an excellent analogy (and mental image ) dude, makes sense!

 

[Full_Tilt]

please do post them

I think bass is my weakest aspect of recording right now...
good thing bass is usually the last thing the average person notices on a recording

I have the same problem .
Most people concentrate on achieving that ultimate guitar tone for heaviness but Ive noticed on mixes where the bass drops out for a second that the guitar tone is actually nothing exceptional .
There does seem to be two types of bass production ...the first is clear and defined with punch and the second is merely a low end extension of the guitar tone to create a really heavy mix where its hard to identify any real bass attack , I like both but still haven't sussed out how to produce either to a satisfactory level .
Any tips would be welcome .
I use a digital 32 track Korg D 32 XD so I dont have plug ins to save the day .

 

[beyond dead]

I'm still not entirely sold on pinning the bass so hard with a limiter, but thinking about it backwards, one could always even the bass out, then add the transient punch back in with medium attack compression.

ive messed around with this.im sure it works, but not for me yet lol.

im going to try the randy staub technique of tuning , quantizing and setting even velocities with melodyne. then automating them back in.

 

[Zombietakeover]

if its metal, you'll probably want some compression, but not limiting, because all the fast note movement in combination with limiting will make the bass seem kinda like "a guy that never stops humming behind the music"

So you have changed your method on bass then correct? because i have several post's by you that say that you Smash the Bass with an L2

I also read a post where you say that, that's all you did to the bass was smash it with a limiter and i believe you said to leave the compression off so the bass can breath a little bit....but now you say No Limiting??

 

[joeymusicguy]

Ok.. that info was really helpful Joey, thank you ! I think I might be having those issues with my audio. So, I should remove the DC Offset BEFORE processing the track, correct ?
BTW, http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1306.html
& http://www.analogx.com/CONTENTS/download/audio/dcoffset.htm

actually, after

if you're using any sort of distortion or overdrive, it IS messing with your dc offset

removing dc offset should be the final stage of the chain, it can be done with x-hum plugin

 

[joeymusicguy]

So you have changed your method on bass then correct? because i have several post's by you that say that you Smash the Bass with an L2

I also read a post where you say that, that's all you did to the bass was smash it with a limiter and i believe you said to leave the compression off so the bass can breath a little bit....but now you say No Limiting??

yeah, i change up a lot of my ideals / methods depending on the project

i probably said that around the time i was working on a radio rock band.

confusing, i know :zombie:

 

[beyond dead]

any logic users know if there is a plug for removing dc stock with logic. i can see there is one for soundtrack pro...

 

[CatharsisStudios]

oh those guitars were 5150 green channel ds-1 and the bass was ampeg svx, for one track the juicy 66 vst amp, and reacomp and such etc. and the limiter i use is a w1 or whatever its called

 

[brianhood]

nice ;P what compressor do you use on bass? reacomp?

this songs reminds mi a little Alert The Sky ;P heh
chers dude

LMAO you know who Alert the Sky is? Those dudes have been pretty good friends of mine for the past few years, and they live like an hour of way. I didnt think anyone in poland would know about them though haha

maybe we're speaking of two different bands though?

 

[brianhood]

http://www.harmony-central.com/articles/tips/eq_dc_offset/

that was actually the link i was too lazy to read though last night. I just read through it though. I definitelyneed to make sure i keep my eye on that stuff from now on, since i've never done it before.

 

[joeymusicguy]

that was actually the link i was too lazy to read though last night. I just read through it though. I definitelyneed to make sure i keep my eye on that stuff from now on, since i've never done it before.

a lot of plugins can knock the dc zero off as well

for instance, adding a certain amount of over drive to a vocal will cause it

when that part in the song comes up, your compressor/limiter can go ape shit if you're not filtering out the extra low hz energy

 

[zvish]

LMAO you know who Alert the Sky is? Those dudes have been pretty good friends of mine for the past few years, and they live like an hour of way. I didnt think anyone in poland would know about them though haha

maybe we're speaking of two different bands though?

Alert the Sky - burger king cd very nice album I like it so much...there is nothing special about knowing some band's from different countries when you know what and where to search

oh those guitars were 5150 green channel ds-1 and the bass was ampeg svx, for one track the juicy 66 vst amp, and reacomp and such etc. and the limiter i use is a w1 or whatever its called

mate could you post amp and ds-1 knobs settings, please pleaseee? What mic and cab were used? Very nice and big tone

 

[Sacha]

I smash the shit out of a fingers player to even it out, right now i'm using UAD LA-2A set to limit then into 1176LN set to compress a a bit.

 

[Ice Man]

This topic couldn't come at a better time because I JUST was mulling this idea over in my head. I've always used limiters on my bass for at least the past two years or more. Problems I've had, though, is getting lowend to sit right and mesh well with guitars. That, and it seemed like I was losing a lot of definition in the playing, like the low end would be there (and it almost every case, too big), but you could only feel the transitions.

Well, about a week ago I was mixing a project for a friend and I was amazed to find how much clearer the mix was in all regards. What I wound up doing different was using two compressors on the bass guitar instead of a compressor and an L1/2/3 limiter. The low end sat right and all the notes could be heard separate from the guitar, but still was working better together. When I checked back on past mixes all having the limiters on the bass, I found that by the time the limiter was flattening all the peaks and having steady gain reduction, it had pulled up so much low mid and mid range information that it would require headache amounts of eq and it would eventually spill over and influence the rest of the mix negatively. Granted, this is just my experience, but it was pretty night and day from my old methods. When checking bass-limited mixes against commercial mixes, the low end would always be so strange and way to huge, even when high passing up to 60 and 70hz on the bass guitar. It was truly frustrating for the longest time. Now, though, it seems like automation and compression alone offer me much better mixes in terms of clarity and low end translation. Could just be a honeymoon thing, but it was pretty damned noticable. Anyone have a similar experience?