VariAudio (Cubase 5) : converting audio into MIDI to be played by a VSTi

[Djabthrash]

Hi folks,

i'm about to step up my game in terms of tools i use for music production... i.e. getting Cubase 5 for DAW, Trilian for bass VSTi, and Superior Drummer 2.0 for drums VSTi...

I was reading the description of Cubase 5 new feature called "VariAudio" and came across this (taken from the Steinberg official website : http://www.steinberg.net/en/product...ubase5_newfeatures/cubase5_newfeatures_2.html) :

"All detected notes and segments can be converted to MIDI notes, including the micro-pitch envelope which translates to pitch bend MIDI data"

I know VariAudio is designed for vocal editing purposes, but i found out i could use that audio into MIDI conversion feature to do the following :

A) for bass parts :

- i track a "bass line" with my guitar (considering i'm a guitar player, don't own a bass and cannot play bass decently)
- then i use VariAudio to convert the audio signal into a MIDI file
- finally i send the MIDI file to my bass VSTi, namely Trilian

B) for tricky drum parts :

- i track a "drums line" with my guitar, like a Fear Factory style machine gun up-and-down stroke palm-muted single note, meant to be played in sync with the kick drum
- then i use VariAudio to convert the audio signal into a MIDI file
- I edit the MIDI file to make it “drums VSTi ready” (similar notes/velocities as a regular programmed MIDI kick drum part)
- finally i send the MIDI file to my drums VSTi, namely Superior Drummer 2.0


Have you guys tried it ? Does it work well ?

If not do you see any reason why it would not work well ? The only thing I can see here is that VariAudio audio to MIDI conversion feature is meant for audio VOCALS, whereas maybe it will suck at converting audio GUITAR to MIDI…

 

[006]

Well, I think as far as getting to convert to MIDI for use with a bass vsti may or may not work. But, the guitar to MIDI to drums can work indeed. Though I wouldn't do palm muted notes, but just mute all strings with both hands and make it more of a sharp transient, would pick up probably a lot better than it having to deal with a lot of tail/decay.

 

[DanLights]

well for the drum part I´ve heard people using drumagog or such software to do exactly that, or just hitting a table and converting into a snare or kick or whatever sample through drumagog.

for bass, well it MIGHT work for bass, if there are no chords involved and you play really clean, but I´m almost certain you could have some "mistrigerring" issues due to the nature of human playing. Never used it though, just a wild guess

 

[JeffTD]

I haven't tried this but sounds like it would work - I've stripped vocal melodies to trigger strings and pads and stuff before... will have to try with gtr triggering bass or other synths!

 

[Soundlurker]

I've triggered kicks and snare from tapping near a mic and on a guitar pickup. It definitely works but I prefer the boring old mouse clicking, it's just faster and more precise if you know what you're doing.

 

[Djabthrash]

Ok thanks for the feedback guys !

 

[Djabthrash]

Though I wouldn't do palm muted notes, but just mute all strings with both hands and make it more of a sharp transient

I don't get it sorry

Care to explain that to a noob ? If you mute strings with both hands... how are you playing the part then ?

 

[aortizjr]

Well I think what you are saying for the guitar->drums is that you could have like the low E translate to the kick and the A to the snare. So then when you convert in vari-audio it translates, or you can transpose it to work.

I think you will find that it is harder to play drums on guitar than you think, especially to make it sound natural. You are better off tapping with your hands using the table technique or something. Or just program them really, Cubase's Drum MIDI Programming is the best I have EVER used... and I have used them all. There is a thread on here too about humanizing which works really also.

For the guitar to bass, yeah that will most likely work. You will want to use a MIDI plugin or transpose the notes down an octave. You may have to edit it a bit in vari-audio to get it right and make sure it picked it all up right. I use it all the time to pull basses and guitars into tune Especially something like fretless, you get the tone and attitude and perfect intonation... sweet!

The amount of time it could take to edit and get your MIDI right, you might be better off with a cheap bass since even the VSTi's are just ok... But the triggering and such does work well, especially if you edit the MIDI a bit. Again the MIDI editing is really nice once you get the hang of it. The built-in plugins and quantizing and such for MIDI is just excellent, learn those and you will save yourself tons of trouble.

 

[Djabthrash]

Well I think what you are saying for the guitar->drums is that you could have like the low E translate to the kick and the A to the snare. So then when you convert in vari-audio it translates, or you can transpose it to work.

I think you will find that it is harder to play drums on guitar than you think, especially to make it sound natural. You are better off tapping with your hands using the table technique or something. Or just program them really, Cubase's Drum MIDI Programming is the best I have EVER used... and I have used them all. There is a thread on here too about humanizing which works really also.

For the guitar to bass, yeah that will most likely work. You will want to use a MIDI plugin or transpose the notes down an octave. You may have to edit it a bit in vari-audio to get it right and make sure it picked it all up right. I use it all the time to pull basses and guitars into tune Especially something like fretless, you get the tone and attitude and perfect intonation... sweet!

The amount of time it could take to edit and get your MIDI right, you might be better off with a cheap bass since even the VSTi's are just ok... But the triggering and such does work well, especially if you edit the MIDI a bit. Again the MIDI editing is really nice once you get the hang of it. The built-in plugins and quantizing and such for MIDI is just excellent, learn those and you will save yourself tons of trouble.

Thanks for the feedback !

I might just use it for bass, but it will definitely come in handy, and i for sure will edit the midi to make it sound perfectly right.

I think with good programming and Trilian i can get some pretty sick-sounding bass lines. It will also help me learn how a good tracked bass sounds like and fits into a mix. I guess someday (next year or something) i'll just buy a good bass and a good bass amp (or use ampeg svx) for my own recordings, but for now having Trilian play a midi bass part is the best solution for me.

 

[DanLights]

a good bass DI like a sansamp or a clean Radial DI could be a cheaper option than a good bass amp or an expensive software emulation (don´t know how that ampeg costs though, just saying)

 

[Djabthrash]

a good bass DI like a sansamp or a clean Radial DI could be a cheaper option than a good bass amp or an expensive software emulation (don´t know how that ampeg costs though, just saying)

i considered it but as is said :

- i'm struggling to play my guitar parts already so i shouldn't try to be a bass player YET

- i'm focussing on songwriting and production right now (and nailing my guitar parts of course), and i know the main thing that sucks when writing songs is not being able to hear it with decent production (esp. since i do not rehearse with a full band), so by writing bass lines and having them played by a killer vsti i'm gonna get both which is awesome

- ... and later i will know what a good bass tone is, what works for my stuff, what kind of bass i'll like, and THAT will be the time when i'll buy a good bass and learn to be a decent bass player

last but not least :

- trilian = 230€
i'm pretty sure an ok bass + a DI + some software bas amp > 230€

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, i just wanna try the MIDI writing into VSTi for now and get to the real thing later on. I'm a real stubborn **** !

 

[CSMadden81243]

how exactly do you get vari audio to recognize each drum hit? say i have exported a single drum track of tom hits and i want to convert them to midi, but vari audio won't detect each hit, therefor the midi track is missing hits. it's probably right in front of me, but i can't figure it out.

 

[ahjteam]

how exactly do you get vari audio to recognize each drum hit? say i have exported a single drum track of tom hits and i want to convert them to midi, but vari audio won't detect each hit, therefor the midi track is missing hits. it's probably right in front of me, but i can't figure it out.

at least ATM Cubase VariAudio doesn't do percussive hits -> midi. That's why I got Slate's trigger.

 

[CSMadden81243]

yea, i figured there wouldn't be a work around that. i'm using drumagog because i've split up each drum hit, quantized it all and replaced it with my samples, but i really want to try superior drummer's toms over mine to see what i like. i just have to figure out how to convert my tom tracks to midi so they can be replaced with superior. saying all that now makes me not wanna even do it haha. eventually i'm just gonna buy slates stuff.