Very Inconsistant DI Volumes - What To Do?

ruckus328

Member
Nov 2, 2009
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Philly USA
Hi everyone, hoping someone can give me some tips/opinions on what to do here. We finally just finished recording DI's for one of our songs and am getting ready to send them out for re-amping. The song was recorded in a few different sessions over the course of a couple weeks. New strings were used every time and preamp settings were untouched. Pickups were an EMG-85. While editing and trying to get a decent tone with an amp sim I started to notice an issue. The levels across the song are very inconsistant. I'm not talking about dynamics, I mean he played overall really soft in one part, and slammed it home in another. I asked the guitarist what the hell was going on and got: "ohh yea, I played those parts really light so it was clearer". Well, then why the hell didn't you play the other parts soft so they were clearer? "Uhh, I don't know" Looking back I do remember him constantly asking me, "turn the gain up, ohh, turn it down, ohh turn it up, ohh turn it down" to compensate. He's on my shit list at the moment.

I'll give you some more specific examples:

In the verse the guitar is peaking at say, -9, while in the bridge/chorus, it's around -3db. There's a palm muted breakdown, peaking around -3db, and in another section where it's basically the same thing (palm muted chugs), it's peaking around -8, -9db.

In a nutshell, the result is this:

If I get the pre/post gains dialed in real nice so that the verse is sounding great, then when it gets to the bridge and the input volumes shoot up + 6-7db, it all goes to hell and the tone sounds like balls and loses all clarity. And vice a versa.

So what should I do here? It's basically like he turned hit volume knob up and down throughout the whole song. Should I normalize each section to -3db? This would keep the dymanics in each section intact, but give me a consistant rms value across the song, hence keeping the tone consistant. Has anyone else ran into issues like this?
 
I dont really know how people like the DI's for reamping. but maybe send him 2 versions and just explain? send him one DI untouched and another one somewhat processed for level purposes. cuz maybe he doesnt care and can fix the one thats all fucked up to his liking?

regardless, if it was me, i would limit the DI. I would never normalize, that just leads to problems. :/
 
Automate / compress if you need to. Clean guitars are pretty dynamic.

I could be totally wrong (I'm no pro), but I was always under the impression that compressing/limiting di's is a big no-no as you don't want to kill those dynamics.

What I was planning on doing was opening the wavs up in wavelab, and apply gain/amplify plugin to each quieter area so they peak at -3db (and when I do this I'd be doing it by section, like the entire verse start to finish if you get what I'm saying) hence preserving the dynamics as opposed to compressing/limiting. Or is there a better way?
 
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't wanna do any kind of dynamics processing on the DI's, except maybe a transient designer + limiter catching the peaks on the wimpier parts (thanks Ryan :D) - beyond that, I wouldn't by any means say normalizing "just leads to problems" if you do the trial and error method of applying it with conservative settings, undoing, and gradually working your way up until it's right where you want it!
 
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't wanna do any kind of dynamics processing on the DI's, except maybe a transient designer + limiter catching the peaks on the wimpier parts (thanks Ryan :D) - beyond that, I wouldn't by any means say normalizing "just leads to problems" if you do the trial and error method of applying it with conservative settings, undoing, and gradually working your way up until it's right where you want it!

wait, what? transient designer on guitars? why? and would this work for mic'd up amps?
 
It was Ryan's idea, but yeah, on weakly-played DI's specifically, to make the attacks more pronounced; pretty clever in theory, dunno if he ever tried it in practice (I know I haven't, since I only record me :D)
 
It was Ryan's idea, but yeah, on weakly-played DI's specifically, to make the attacks more pronounced; pretty clever in theory, dunno if he ever tried it in practice (I know I haven't, since I only record me :D)

see my production of "caulfield". kid picked like a wimp, ryan spiced up the transients before re-amping.
 
wait till checking once reamped cause amps will compress them naturally. Maybe you like it. DI's are supposed to very dynamic, even more with passive pups

edit. I see, actives and very untight

Automate that shit but first try with an amp simto see if it's really necessary
 
wait till checking once reamped cause amps will compress them naturally. Maybe you like it. DI's are supposed to very dynamic, even more with passive pups

edit. I see, actives and very untight

Automate that shit but first try with an amp simto see if it's really necessary

I've had it running through Revalver which is how I really noticed it in the first place. I've had no luck trying to get a decent tone in the quiet areas. The real problem areas are the leady string jumping/palm mutes. Ya know these guys:


--3-5-6-
00-0-0-0
.. . . .


The palm's have no balls and the lead hits are seriously lacking clarity and sound dirty. I don't know if it's the not so great gear we used, the soft playing, or just my lack of nailing revalver. It could also be that damn 85 he has in the bridge, ya know - because that's what adam d has. :yell:

Most of the other sections sound fuckin brutal. It's just those quieter sections which are hurting.

When I get home I'll post a screen shot of the di so you can see exactly what I'm talking about.

If anyone wants to take a deeper look into it to give me their opinions, let me know and I'll send you the di's.

Thanks to all who've responded.
 
if the well played parts and the lower ones are so similar you can edit the hell out of them and build the riffage, maybe?¿

Not quite getting what you mean. They're not interchangeable. It's not like he played some measures of the same riff loud and others quiet.

Its the entire verse on every take was played very lightly. (Not getting good tone in these areas)

Whereas other sections: (bridges, chorus, breakdown) were played heavier and sound great.
 
yup, I meant, if the chorus is similar to verses you could build the verse from the single notes from the chorus. but i'm guessing it's not the case
 
This thread is confusing the hell out of me. Why would you have to automate DIs? It's not like you have to do that when playing through a real amp...I understand there's no time to retrack the guitars as you mentioned, but stuff like this should only be used as a last resort right?
 
This thread is confusing the hell out of me. Why would you have to automate DIs? It's not like you have to do that when playing through a real amp...I understand there's no time to retrack the guitars as you mentioned, but stuff like this should only be used as a last resort right?

i feel similarly. unless the preamp gain knob got knocked, this shouldn't even be an issue. you might be thinking too hard.
 
i feel similarly. unless the preamp gain knob got knocked, this shouldn't even be an issue. you might be thinking too hard.

No, you're absolutely right, it shouldn't be an issue. The preamp knob definitely wasn't touched, what I'm wondering is if he didn't have his volume knob turned up all the way for a good portion of tracking. I tried to play as quiet as he did with the same guitar, and no matter how light I played I couldn't come close, the only way I was able to get the same levels as him was to turn down either the pre-amp or volume knob on the guitar. When I told him they were really inconsistant and next go around needs to be better and he needs to play harder, he acted like I killed his kitten lol. Here's a picture of the section I'm talking about. I have the real problem area highlight. It's about a minute long and you can see how much it dips.

DI-Original.jpg


There's a few parts in the highlighted area that are chugada chugs. They are sooooo friggin quiet it aint funny. When it gets to that section the input is so low that there's barely any gain on the signal and sounds like a classic rock tone, not metal. Talked to the reamp guy and he agreed I should normalize by section to bring the peaks of each section up to -3db, which is what I did. The result is this:

DI-Normalized.jpg


This is my first time doing DI recording. You guys know better than me. Is that first pic normal?