Very Strange Mix (Anathema Cover)

[DanLights]

When I did the arrangements to this song it was already pretty far away from the original song, but now that I'm doing the mix it just went out of control. Usually when I mix I try to let the raw tracks "dictate" how I should proceed and go from there, and this time I'm not sure if I'm really doing a groundbreaking fresh new mix or I'm just completely out of my mind/ears. Vocals very heavy on reverb, dense rhythm guitars, lots of stuff going on in the background barely audible but just adding to the "tension" of the song, it's all just a beautiful mess to my ears right now, I'm just not sure it'll still be like that in 30 minutes haha. Or maybe it's just normal and I'm retarded and burnt out, I don't know.

Anyways, this is a death-ised cover of "Lost Control" by Anathema, performed by my band Ad Intra. Guest vocals by the great Chiri from Harpia Deiis (Mago's band), Rhythm guitars reamped by Jason Cohen aka Guitarguru77 aka Fat porn dude. Clean guitars are Amplitube, Leads are POD Xt Live.

This song is supposed to go as a bonus track to the single "We Aren't Ready To Take Off" which has been discussed Here

So here it is, tell me what you think!
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/954292/Music samples-stems/Lost Control Rough Mix.mp3

Edit: Updated Mix
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/954292/Ad Intra Stuff/Lost Control Rough Mix.mp3

 

[LeSedna]

Constructive criticism here

Bass : not too fond of the saturation it has, also some notes could have been hit better in the intro, cause it's so alone.

Drums : a bit mechanical no ? It could benefit from a little midi humanization before the mix. I think the overheads are a bit too high but I'll let other people tell you if it's just me or real. The snare/kick sounds okay to me, the toms lack something, I discovered you can go really far in terms of dB of boosting or cutting about the toms to make them cut more, could you try that ? Also they could be louder, they only appear in some rolls so having them loud here and there wouldn't sound too aggressive.

There is something missing in the guitar overall tone, how did you high/low pass them ? If you didn't do something too drastic about them and kept them "natural" maybe reamp them again with a few setting changes to fit a more balanced tone. I've heard really worst sounds but I'm sure you can do better.

Voice sounds good to me, but I agree with you, maybe the reverb is not the most suited one or is too heavy. I think it sounds too much like a "hall" reverb, but I have also found over the years I rarely like this type of verbs for voice so it's maybe more personnal here. I think it makes voice sound "cheap" excepted in some precise situations, and other types of reverb suit a voice more, but take this with a grain of salt since I said it's maybe personnal.

I would say more there is a bit too much of verb in the rest of the mix. So much that the kick sounds too dry for me around 1:31 which is not usual. Do you lowpass/highpass your verb ?

Also, i've heard glitches in the guitars around 2:16, and a bit better as well.

I think the main problem for me would be the guitar dominating a bit too much the frequencies here, in a strange way. I'm sure with better guitars you'll find a better control on your mix. It's not "that" out of control though.

It's just my own listening session with my headphones who made me think all of that so I'll let other people give you their own opinions.

Can't wait to hear the finished product though !

 

[DanLights]

Hey Mat, thanks a lot for your detailed input, I really appreciate it! I agree the guitars are dominating, but I have to say I love it that way and I've been mixing "around" the guitars trying to make everything else fit nicely around them, and I think I'm kinda achieving it. I do agree with many things you mentioned though, right now I'm redoing the bass completely but it isn't proving easy, I generally love the tone on my bass but fuck-old strings are totally killing the tone (I have a set of new strings, but I'm saving it for the recording of the full length in 2 months, no cash for more!), I'm having a tough time getting it to sound good AND work in the mix (I seem to get either one or the other).

anyways, I'll post an updated mix in a while, and I'm still open to anyone else's suggestions

 

[Plankis]

The bass sounds very stale and out of place on those solo parts in my opinion. Maybe a bad performance, overcompression or both.
Edit out that hiss the guitars does around 1/4th way through, very loud and annoying.
Kick is very dry.

Overall I'm digging the vibe. Only real problem I see here is that bass on those solo parts, and some cut outs and that hiss.

 

[DanLights]

thanks Plankis, I'm really unhappy with the bass on this song, I think it's mainly the really old strings, Dealing with it as much as I can, it's almost done now. It's disappointing cause the bass on the original is huge and delicious so I'm definitely not topping it hahah

The kick is dry, cause I didn't send it to the Room bus like the rest of the drums, maybe I should try giving it some slight verb on it's own? what do you suggest?

Oh and the cut-outs by the rhythm guitar is a gating mistake, I used Reagate to cut out part of that hiss that shows up at the beggining but it also cuts out some parts of the guitars, I'll obviously fix that. The hiss I don't why is there, according to Jason who did the reamping, he said the guitar I used was probably having a ground problem or something cause he was getting a lot of noise, which is weird cause I didn't get any while tracking nor while doing scratch tracks with ampsims, and I used that same guitar with only a month or two away to do the other song on the Single (Link is in the OP) and had absolutely no problem with it. So yeah it's odd, I'll have to look at it

 

[DanLights]

Ok so updated mix: Not sure about the snare, still looking for an appropiate sample, but I think everything else is much more balanced now, and the bass is tighter and less sloppy I think (Hope)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/954292/Ad Intra Stuff/Lost Control Rough Mix.mp3

 

[Plankis]

Yeah, try a bit of reverb on the kick. It didn't gel that good with the rest of the drums on those cleaner parts.

That hiss is easily edited out manually so it's nothing major. I like tone, it's a bit harsh but I think it fits the raw quality the song has.

Edit lol too sloow

Edit 2: Listened to the new version and kick sits better now.

 

[DanLights]

Yeah, try a bit of reverb on the kick. It didn't gel that good with the rest of the drums on those cleaner parts.

That hiss is easily edited out manually so it's nothing major. I like tone, it's a bit harsh but I think it fits the raw quality the song has.

Edit lol too sloow

hahaha tell me what you think about it now

Edit: lol I was slow too

 

[Plankis]

Ok I'm getting too involved in this haha. I had to learn that incredibly hard bass intro and figure out what's bugging me. What I learnt was that your playing it too note-y. Add some slow slides to that riff and I think it'll start too come to life. I played it with one finger and slid slowly to almost every note.

 

[DanLights]

Ok I'm getting too involved in this haha. I had to learn that incredibly hard bass intro and figure out what's bugging me. What I learnt was that your playing it too note-y. Add some slow slides to that riff and I think it'll start too come to life. I played it with one finger and slid slowly to almost every note.

Hope it didn't take you too long to figure out three notes hahaha

Don't quite get what you mean, you mean like it has too much pick attack on the notes?

 

[Plankis]

I just think it's played too stiff. But maybe this is where our tastes differ?

 

[DanLights]

I just think it's played too stiff. But maybe this is where our tastes differ?

No not at all, I can agree with you, I'll admit it hurts my ego a bit cause I've always felt decently proud of my bass playing, but don't worry I can take it like a man, I won't cry in public.

In my defense though, the intention WAS to make it kind of robotic-like in the accents cause I was trying too hard to mimic the playing style of Duncan Patterson (bassist and writer of the original song) but of course I am no Duncan nor do I have his gear/fingers, so I guess that ended up biting me in the ass haha

Although I am satisfied enough with how the mix is turning out so I will not rerecord the bass. Thanks for all the input btw dude!

 

[Mago]

now that my ears are somewhat clear again I can finally give some input on that too:

I think we have bit different tastes in mixing stuff like this...I'd give it a lot more ambience/fx in generall, especially vocals, snare, piano and the cleans...
kick sits fine here!
your vocals also sound better then the last time you posted something (had some strange kind of metallish sound going on if I remember correctly)
guitars....hm...dunno, I dont like them that much, they seem to have a bit of nastyness going on
rhythms I mean with that...did you give some kind of preamp signal to the leads? I like that, sounds a bit synthish haha

Have to say though that I have not much to do with songs/mixes like that in general...it's the only Anathema song I know...and you probably can imagine why

 

[DanLights]

hey Marco! Sorry I've been so late to answer to this, it slipped my mind. Let me adress your points:

1. You'd give more ambience/fx to the vocals? Are you nuts? both the cleans and growls are drowned in sexy reverb! At least that's how I hear it, and I'm sure I gave them some haha to the rest, I guess it's just a matter of taste, I think the snare has enough room to make it fit better with the rest of the drums but not too much, same thing with piano, I have to say I like it that way. Plus, my wife complains about how Chiri's voice sounds so dry in the Harpia Deiis album (well the teaser on the FB page) and she insisted she wanted it really wet in our mix ;-)

2. Thanks about the kick!

3. Thanks about the vocals! I'm convinced on the other song the mic choice was not ideal, but the choice wasn't mine, it was recorded in a studio. This one was recorded with a shitty Behringer mic through the preamp of a shitty Behringer mixer to a POD Xt Live as the interface but it sounds better hahaha

4. Guitars, I'm gonna have to say "different tastes" again, and I can understand many people won't like them, but I liked them when I first recieved the reamped tracks, and they have grown on me, I love them now, and yes there's nastyness about it, but since when is that a bad word? haha seriously though, I think for the song they fit quite nicely, and luckily the rest of the band agrees with me so we're keeping them

5. About the lead guitars, glad you like the "synth" sound of a POD they're POD tone, they're synth-like cause they're digital. The guitarist who did them didn't like the tone at all at first, but he was glad after hearing it in the final mix, I like it.

So, what I'm trying to say is: thank you for your time and your honest thoughts, but we don't seem to agree on anything here hahaha

This mix is pretty much done, I like the latest updates with the fixed bass, different snare and well balanced levels.

 

[Mago]

hey Marco! Sorry I've been so late to answer to this, it slipped my mind. Let me adress your points:

1. You'd give more ambience/fx to the vocals? Are you nuts? both the cleans and growls are drowned in sexy reverb! At least that's how I hear it, and I'm sure I gave them some haha to the rest, I guess it's just a matter of taste, I think the snare has enough room to make it fit better with the rest of the drums but not too much, same thing with piano, I have to say I like it that way. Plus, my wife complains about how Chiri's voice sounds so dry in the Harpia Deiis album (well the teaser on the FB page) and she insisted she wanted it really wet in our mix ;-)

2. Thanks about the kick!

3. Thanks about the vocals! I'm convinced on the other song the mic choice was not ideal, but the choice wasn't mine, it was recorded in a studio. This one was recorded with a shitty Behringer mic through the preamp of a shitty Behringer mixer to a POD Xt Live as the interface but it sounds better hahaha

4. Guitars, I'm gonna have to say "different tastes" again, and I can understand many people won't like them, but I liked them when I first recieved the reamped tracks, and they have grown on me, I love them now, and yes there's nastyness about it, but since when is that a bad word? haha seriously though, I think for the song they fit quite nicely, and luckily the rest of the band agrees with me so we're keeping them

5. About the lead guitars, glad you like the "synth" sound of a POD they're POD tone, they're synth-like cause they're digital. The guitarist who did them didn't like the tone at all at first, but he was glad after hearing it in the final mix, I like it.

So, what I'm trying to say is: thank you for your time and your honest thoughts, but we don't seem to agree on anything here hahaha

This mix is pretty much done, I like the latest updates with the fixed bass, different snare and well balanced levels.

haha yeah I was imagining something like that
You also have to think that I have ZERO experience with that kind of music, I don't listen to it and I wouldn't know how to mix it...guess my powermetallish approach wouldnt work at all

About the verb: I think you (two) maybe think of different verb as chiri and me, seems you like them more with early reflections and I like to have them big and thick, like you'd be standing in a huge church...that's why I cant turn them on too loud in the mix hahaha