Vox that don't need de-essing?

[Ermz]

I think I've just run into this for the first time in my life.

I recorded a symphonic/keyboard metal band with a chick singer some months ago, and only now upon doing the most recent rough bounces have I realized that she doesn't even need a de-esser. This is after I've added some 4dB to the top end, and absolutely slammed the vocal sideways.

It just feels really weird because there isn't really any junk in the signal whatsoever. She is probably the most trained and refined singer I've ever recorded. Do they get trained to avoid these effects? It's kind of awesome.

 

[Skinny Viking]

I've gotten that with a few singers ... maybe a lot of it is technique

to be fair I've only worked with about 8 different vocalists and I'd say 5 of them actually needed the de-esser

 

[arvoitus]

According to my girlfriend (She's trained in Classical/pop/jazz and controls all technique and stuff within her range).
She says thats the basic of classical training, during classical training you get trained to remove all those wierd/junk sound in your voice. Also controlled breathing: not breathing out in the mic and all that stuff.
She says that as a classical singer you have a "larger breathing space" (something with the diaphragm). They are trained to take better use of the diaphragm so that they can sing with more control over their voice.

It's very hard to explain according to my girlfriend, if you need to know anything more i can put her behind my pc

 

[greyskull]

its all in matching the singer and mic. Most cheap ldc need dessing, especially once thy're met with compression and eq!!

 

[Ermz]

Hmm fair call. Well this was U47 > Distressor (opto mode, up to 8dB off) > 512b. Think that had something to do with it?

@arvoitus: Cool stuff. It's obvious immediately with a trained singer that they need less work after the fact. It's like they inherently have better microphone technique just because of their vocal control. It's a nice change from these screamers and their stupid-ass plosives.

 

[greyskull]

yeah the 47 will have A LOT to do with that
that is a SMOOOOOOTH mic.

 

[Forceps]

Just avoid the S in your lyrics and you don't need any de-esser!

 

[Mikaël-ange]

and absolutely slammed the vocal sideways.

For quote CLA (question was:What de-essers do you use?):

dbx 902s. But a lot of times if you pick the right compressor, it kind of de-esses by itself. The tube limiters, especially,
knock the esses off pretty good.

Sidechain comp on 4K work really well for this too btw

Btw Erm, you really need to stop worshiping Staub and put your head on TLA/Wallace job. I'm really into this since 2 weeks and whaou, ton of awesome tips when you search... This guys really rock imo (sorry for this OT end)

 

[ahjteam]

I've personally never needed de-essing with Neumann's (used U87 and TLM something) or C414's thru a tube preamp (TLA ivory 5051)

 

[Ermz]

Btw Erm, you really need to stop worshiping Staub and put your head on TLA/Wallace job. I'm really into this since 2 weeks and whaou, ton of awesome tips when you search... This guys really rock imo (sorry for this OT end)

There's a folder full of interviews/tips from veteran engineers I save to read on my downtime. Is there any stuff by TLA/Wallace that can be added? I only added one of AW's latest, and there were some cool tips in there, but nothing much past the usual 'I pin my 2-bus comp' like Randy.

As far as the dynamics sidechain on the 4k, does it work equally well on the Waves plug-in, or is it solely a real SSL thing? I still use the RDesser for everything.

@greyskull: Totally. I was a bit surprised at how much top-end it needed afterward, but it seems to be a better approach. I'd rather just have a nice smooth shelf give me all those silky highs instead of a peaky/uneven mic. Bit similar to guitar tones I guess. Track dark, boost it on the way and you're sorted.

 

[AudioPhile777]

clips or it didn't happen?

 

[greyskull]

There's a folder full of interviews/tips from veteran engineers I save to read on my downtime. Is there any stuff by TLA/Wallace that can be added? I only added one of AW's latest, and there were some cool tips in there, but nothing much past the usual 'I pin my 2-bus comp' like Randy.

As far as the dynamics sidechain on the 4k, does it work equally well on the Waves plug-in, or is it solely a real SSL thing? I still use the RDesser for everything.

@greyskull: Totally. I was a bit surprised at how much top-end it needed afterward, but it seems to be a better approach. I'd rather just have a nice smooth shelf give me all those silky highs instead of a peaky/uneven mic. Bit similar to guitar tones I guess. Track dark, boost it on the way and you're sorted.

agreed..
Boosting on a darker mic is much nicer.

 

[Mikaël-ange]

There's a folder full of interviews/tips from veteran engineers I save to read on my downtime. Is there any stuff by TLA/Wallace that can be added? I only added one of AW's latest, and there were some cool tips in there, but nothing much past the usual 'I pin my 2-bus comp' like Randy.

As far as the dynamics sidechain on the 4k, does it work equally well on the Waves plug-in, or is it solely a real SSL thing? I still use the RDesser for everything.

I will compile everything (interview, gearslutz thread with cool info)
I haven't already tested 4k sidechain with wave SSL for say anything about it, but on real 4k it work great

The basic idea is to route your vocal to 2 separate channel ,boost unwanted frequency>comp on first and link sidechain through second channel=auto de essing

 

[Mago]

Sometimes it's also an issue of how the mouth is build. some people can't or can avoid doing noises while speaking some not.
My "S" sounds very sharp while speaking, but while singing it's not that obvious...

 

[pipaguapique]

my voice doesn't need de esser...i found out when we recorded our first album.

plus, i used the "wooden pencil taped to the front of the mic trick" <---yeah, that's sounds ridiculous...but believe me, it works.

 

[jangoux]

I rarely use de-esser but then again i rarely mix dense rock/metal material so i rarely slam things hard with a comp or give it too much top end. That and Neumann U87.

 

[BLOODROOT]

my voice doesn't need de esser...i found out when we recorded our first album.

plus, i used the "wooden pencil taped to the front of the mic trick" <---yeah, that's sounds ridiculous...but believe me, it works.

elaborate plz.

 

[AntonioPetrole]

elaborate plz.

I think it is referring to a technique that melissa cross always teaches which go's something like, hold a pencil across the middle of your mouth, then try to sing above and below it.

 

[Seth Munson]

for this acoustic project im working on right we were experimenting with the vocals, and the farther back the singer was from the mic the less we needed to de-ess.

wonder if its like that for other vocalists.

 

[smy1]

I think it is referring to a technique that melissa cross always teaches which go's something like, hold a pencil across the middle of your mouth, then try to sing above and below it.

Nope. He is talking about taping a pencil in front of the diaphragm of the mic. The tip of the pencil will disperse air and reduce plosives etc.