VST Ampsim: DI box vs Saffire instrument in

[Downtime]

Hey there,

I've been recording my demo-stuff with a guitar (active EMG 81s) straight into the unbalanced input of a M-Audio 1010LT using VST-ampsims and impulse responses for a while now. I got a decent tone, but I think I can get more out of it with a balanced input-channel and a higher impedance.
Since I'm on a tight budget at the moment, I've considered two alternatives:

- Buying a Radial JDI DI box to put it between my guitar and the existing 1010LT
- Buying a Focusrite Saffire 6 and use the instrument-in. Which would be great since I need a new and 'cheap' USB-interface for my demo-stuff-PC in my flat anyway, the 1010LT is being used in a whole other location, where I got lots of other (and louder) hardware, like my 6505 with cabs and mics for recording.

Which solution would you guys prefer, considering the budget and those "I need to buy a new USB-interface"-problems? I know many would go for a better interface or a Countryman T. 85, but I can't afford it right now.

Thanks in advance,
Downy

 

[indecizo]

the countryman is cheaper than the radial
borrow a decent di box if you know somebody that has one and check if there's any improvement
I don't know about the quality of the 1010 but the saffire 6 is alright, and your di's on the instrument input will sound good with those emgs. I've heard it has some clipping and driver problems tho. I'd save for a saffire 24 and plug straight into the instrument input. It doesn't have a pad but I don't see how that's a problem with those emgs.

 

[indecizo]

But the pro 24 is firewire, although a firewire card is cheap, if you are on a desktop pc and it's worth it

 

[anotherpaul]

There are clipping problems with Saffires. I have Saffire LE (FW) and my friend has Saffire 6 (USB) and we both experience clipping on instrument input even with passive pickups and even with zero gain on the Saffire. Line mode works fine though, but I have no idea how the instrument mode should behave.

 

[Downtime]

the countryman is cheaper than the radial

I wish it was, perhaps it depends on location. I'm from Germany, and in one of the biggest online stores the Radial JDI is 199 € (~ 260 $), while the Countryman Type 85 costs 229 € (~ 300 $). Plus I'd prefer to go with a passive DI. Unfortunately theres no one around I could borrow either of them from. Just for comparison: The Saffire 6 would save me some money (139 € / ~ 180 $)

There are clipping problems with Saffires. I have Saffire LE (FW) and my friend has Saffire 6 (USB) and we both experience clipping on instrument input even with passive pickups and even with zero gain on the Saffire. Line mode works fine though, but I have no idea how the instrument mode should behave.

Did you try the pad switch? If it's clipping frequently that would be a no for the Saffire for me, since I'm not only recording distorted metal-guitars, but clean guitartracks, too. Sounds even worse since you are experiencing the clipping even with passive pickups. I've read about people turning down the volume on their EMG-equipped guitars, but I don't think it would be an option for me to try and turn it down to the exact same level everytime I record something...

Thanks for your kind advice,

Downtime

 

[anotherpaul]

Saffire LE doesn't have a pad button so I use a separate DI-box or just plug straight in with line level mode selected on the input and crank the gain higher. My friend says that with some guitars pad on his Saffire 6 doesn't help to prevent clipping so he uses a DI-box too.

 

[Downtime]

Too bad, I had all my hope on the pad-button ;-)
Does anyone know a audiointerface in this pricerange that is known to have a working (not clipping) instrument in?

 

[deLuther]

If you are using EMGs at standard 9 V, all you need is HiZ with maximum input level greater than +9.3 dbu (or +7.1 dbV).
It seems that Avid Fast Track Solo/Duo can be good enough because of +15 dbV level at minimum gain.
http://www.avid.com/US/products/fasttrack-solo#tech-specs
Usual conventional EMGs have around 4.5 V peak to peak @ 9 V power supply.
So, to be sure, you will need slightly larger input level than +9.3 dbu.

 

[D_A_V]

What do you think about the Presonus AudioBox 22 VSL? It has 1MOhm of input impedance and a max input headroom of +15 dBu with less than 0.5% THD. At least that is what they telling you in the specs. Worth trying out...

 

[Downtime]

Hi deLuther, hi D_A_V,

great ideas! If the specs don't lie (since they aint hips) both should work. In this case I'd prefer the Presonus (while not having heard any of them) for its two channels and the output jacks.

 

[deLuther]

Presonus 22VSL and 44VSL have noisy pres, especially when comparing pres on channels 1-2 to line inputs 3-4 on 44VSL with external instrument preamp, night and day. But presonus VSL pres can handle even larger levels than +15 dbu.
And real testing with RMAA (because mortals can`t have access to Audio Precision) shows than THD is not so good as claimed.

 

[D_A_V]

But honestly I don't hear that the pres in the Presonus are very noisy. Ok, I don't have any experience with expensive gear, but if it's good enough for Ola, I think it's more than good enough for me.

 

[deLuther]

VSL series have good converters, on 44VSL line inputs (3-4) test shows expected good result, but inputs with preamps (1-2) is far from it, thats all.

 

[Downtime]

Now you really got me thinking about it. Too bad I'm on a really tight budget, things would be easier with a few more bucks left for equipment.
So deLuther, are you saying the instrument in of the Presonus could / will be very noisy? As I am trying to eliminate the noise in my current signal chain (guitar -> unbalanced RCA-soundcard-in) this would'n be a big gain I guess.

Thanks so much,
Downy

 

[deLuther]

Just noisy, not exactly very noisy
Something strange, because Presonus (at least 44VSL) have good enough OPAMPs (MC33079) to get better results, along with good enough CODECs (cs4272).