weird "business problem", how would you handle it?

[joeymusicguy]

seeking everyone's opinion on the following matter that i am currently mixed up in...

ok a band approached me about recording an EP worth of material. I am close to this band, some of its members are family, others are people I grew up with, I've also been in several bands with some of the members, and I've also recorded the band several times throughout the years.

The slot they wanted was situated between two big projects, and I was reluctant to book the sessions in fear of not completing the project on time. A close friend of the band, and a friend of mine approached me with the attitude "you're going to do it, there's just no other way". So with no choice in the matter (honestly i did have a choice, but saying no would have been the equivalent of slapping your mom in the face) i said ok whatever.

So the time comes for the sessions and everyone's stoked. The material is spot on and seriously pretty radio. So the production just had to be ALL out. In the course of 10 days we fully produced and tracked six songs, and thats where our time frame ended. My schedule (being booked for a year at a time) went on, and so did the band's life... but without a final mix / edit of the project.

I charge a daily rate, the band got a discount. I cut them a break, and went against my will to book them in the time slot i was reluctant to fill (it was my vacation time).

There are no paper contracts or really any verbal agreements but, the price we charge is for tracking only. Its always been my business style to "mix and master for free" when its really just a packaged price.

Now since i wasn't able to edit / mix the project after completing the tracking, I've asked the band to wait until i can and so far, I havent been able to. Its reached a few months now and the band is getting antsy.

So then I offer up a killer option of taking it to a guy i trust with mixing and editing. They are all for it, but there's a problem. I send the project to the guy and he takes a look at it and goes, there's no way in hell I can finish this in a few weeks (which was the requested time frame from the band).

So back to the band, NOW they say I should pay for them to take the project to someone else to finish it out.

I honestly feel like its not my problem because the discount I cut for the band was generous and I did complete all work that was paid for (the dollar amount per studio day). I also worked overtime @ no charge to keep the project on schedule.

Thoughts?

 

[jrt12]

i say bang her and rush out the door before she starts getting all clingy... oh sorry, wrong thread.

dude, this situation sucks. damned if you do/dont. i wish you the best of luck.

 

[Skinny Viking]

if they're really friends and family and you guys are close, they shouldn't be giving you any shit about this. You already jumped through several hoops to make a quality product for them and showed yourself to be flexible with things. Its not your fault the other guy can't do it, its not your fault you had other projects already lined up that THEY knew about when you "agreed" to take the job. You've been flexible and accomodating, they should be the same. Saying you should pay for them to take it somewhere else for mix/master is bullshit. They should have known that the timing of everything could present a very real problem with some things and they should have properly planned for it just in case.

thats my take on it

 

[Skinny Viking]

i say bang her and rush out the door before she starts getting all clingy... oh sorry, wrong thread.

Nice!

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Family or not, that's just taking advantage of you. I'm probably not the best possible person to give advice on this, but you definitely shouldn't pay them to get their EP mixed. That's just ridiculous.

 

[Erkan]

Dude... have you even explained what you are explaining to us at the moment, to them? I mean, if they seriously don't get it after this explanation, they must be dickheads. I think it sounds like you've done WAAAAAY MORE than anyone would do given these circumstances man.

 

[Moonlight_Seeker]

Well once when I knew nothing about recording a friend of the band proposed us to record 10 songs for a very good price. We were happy.
The project was never finished. We were not happy.

So I see myself very well on the other side of the coin.

Its always been my business style to "mix and master for free" when its really just a packaged price.

The mixing-editing-mastering are not free, and you did not do it. So why do you talk of a discount?

 

[SocialNumb]

Kick them in the nuts! Sounds like you did enough to me. Like jhakwe said, sounds they are taking advantage.

 

[joeymusicguy]

Well once when I knew nothing about recording a friend of the band proposed us to record 10 songs for a very good price. We were happy.
The project was never finished. We were not happy.

So I see myself very well on the other side of the coin.



The mixing-editing-mastering are not free, and you did not do it. So why do you talk of a discount?

instead of charging 350 a day i charged them 250 a day
they paid me 250 dollars a day for 10 days

i worked for 10 days and we got as far as we could get

 

[joeymusicguy]

Kick them in the nuts! Sounds like you did enough to me. Like jhakwe said, sounds they are taking advantage.

the more and more i think about it, it doesnt even make sense to mix it at all if you consider the fact that i gave a discount in the first place

 

[Joshua Wickman]

May i ask why they need this mix so fast and can not wait the extra time this other dude would take?

Ive come to the realization that most people in bands are pretty selfish and this is a prime example.... They should be thanking you for everything you have done and instead there worried about whats good for them and what should be given to them.

 

[Moonlight_Seeker]

So they paid 2'500$ in exchange of nothing?

edit : You said that the "free mixing/mastering" are just a sales pitch and are in fact part of the package and you did not do the whole package. So it is not a discount.

 

[joeymusicguy]

So they paid 2'500$ in exchange of nothing?

edit : You said that the "free mixing/mastering" are just a sales pitch and are in fact part of the package and you did not do the whole package. So it is not a discount.

i never said they couldnt have the projects, i've already put them on a flash drive ready for pickup =]

 

[Moonlight_Seeker]

But when you order a pizza and you receive all the ingredients but not cooked and put together, do you pay for it?

 

[joeymusicguy]

May i ask why they need this mix so fast and can not wait the extra time this other dude would take?

Ive come to the realization that most people in bands are pretty selfish and this is a prime example.... They should be thanking you for everything you have done and instead there worried about whats good for them and what should be given to them.

they are in such a hurry because they've been a band for about 10 years now and suddenly "people are knocking on the door for the new material"

im not saying its not true, but its not like im holding the project hostage, they already know they can come pick up the nuendo sessions from me any time...

 

[ahjteam]

if they have already paid you, give them the tracked tracks and tell them to take them somewhere where someone has time to do it.

 

[Skinny Viking]

But when you order a pizza and you receive all the ingredients but not cooked and put together, do you pay for it?

maybe not but the pizza delivery place shouldn't feel like they have to buy you a new pizza from somewhere else

also, if I got a $14 pizza that was delivered to me on time but I had placed my order an hour after the place had closed, and I only had to pay $5 for it, I'll cook the bitch myself

 

[colonel kurtz]

that shit sucks, man...i'm sorry to hear you're in such a fucked situation with that whole thing

i'd try to give some advice on the whole deal, but i don't really have any...hopefully you can get shit worked out to everyone's liking

 

[joeymusicguy]

But when you order a pizza and you receive all the ingredients but not cooked and put together, do you pay for it?

me: can i order a pizza?
papa johns: i dunno, we're really busy
me: there's just no other way around this, YOU WILL LET ME ORDER A PIZZA
papa johns: ok... hey i'll give you a discount!
me: ok good because we barely have any money
papa johns: its ok, i can't promise we won't run out of time while cooking the pizza
me: thats ok! i love pizza!
papa johns:

mins later...

papa johns: i could not finish cooking the pizza
me: what?!
papa johns: its half cooked but it has all the ingredients!
me: thats not fair, i demand you to buy me a new pizza!
papa johns: but without me you wouldnt have these specific ingredients we came up with...
me: you said you'd make me a pizza, this isnt a finished pizza!
papa johns: i didnt make any promises

......

 

[Moonlight_Seeker]

maybe not but the pizza delivery place shouldn't feel like they have to buy you a new pizza from somewhere else

also, if I got a $14 pizza that was delivered to me on time but an hour after the place had closed, and I only had to pay $5 for it, I'll cook the bitch myself

Well I meant instead of receiving a pizza you receive the paste thingy, tomato sauce, pepperoni, maybe some bacon and cheese, will you pay for it? I would tell them to go away and I will go to McDonalds. And if I would have paid before for that "pizza" I would be pissed. But for 14$ I could survive.

And when there is a hair or whatever in the pizza ( a real pizza ), I call back and they send a new one. No questions asked. Many many people deliver pizza here.

The part after the sell or after the money has been taken is very important for someone who aspires for marketing domination. Or simply doesn't want to piss off too much the family.

But can they actually get a decent mixing for 1000$? Do they know other people? So now you would stop making them a discount because they had the chance of you not finishing? hehe, I'm sorry, personal experiences arise inside.


edit : If it was just someone who is annoying and I will never meet again in my life, I would tell them to call a certain guy and that would be the end of it. But they are family and old time friends.