well what i heard was that they are the latter. but of course i am misinformed and only know what i read on the internet or what other people tell me.
What are you supposed to do when protesting doesn't work?
- Thread starter FuSoYa
- Start date
goatschool
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anyway, this has turned into a thread about the war and I don't disagree with reorganizing Iraq.
Basically I'm just wondering what American citizens are supposed to do when change needs to happen STAT but the government isn't listening to protests.
Assuming that you are not satisfied with doing nothing, as stultus says.
Basically I'm just wondering what American citizens are supposed to do when change needs to happen STAT but the government isn't listening to protests.
Assuming that you are not satisfied with doing nothing, as stultus says.
VangelicSurgeon
Three Star General
deadair
Overly-Cryptic Jake
xfer
I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
My response to that is that the government isn't "not listening to protests". We haven't even begun to protest. Violence is an utterly last resort--if it's a resort at all, which I question!--and we're not even close to exhausting all our possibilities. If you can't organize your fellow Americans to protest in numbers far stronger--a hundred times stronger--than the meager numbers that assembled in New York and Washington, D.C., then your "armed revolt" is not going to be a revolt of the people. It's going to be a coup, a gang of thugs with guns, who seize the government and impose their will on a much larger majority through violence.
Look, speaking as someone who was once basically a professional protest organizer: we haven't come close to our potential. Change is a long, hard, process, that takes years if not decades; what you need to do is convince everyone you know, everyone you meet, that there's a problem, get them to come to outdoor events to show their support, and eventually move to civil disobedience and stuff.
Look, speaking as someone who was once basically a professional protest organizer: we haven't come close to our potential. Change is a long, hard, process, that takes years if not decades; what you need to do is convince everyone you know, everyone you meet, that there's a problem, get them to come to outdoor events to show their support, and eventually move to civil disobedience and stuff.
xfer
I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
Bush shouldn't have listened to the protestors in NYC. It's his *job* not to, and I don't want a poll-based, I-wanna-be-popular president. Our job: if things are bad enough, we need to sacrifice our time and effort and make him listen. Bush can't jail five million people committing civil disobedience in the streets of the Capitol, and if the country is paralyzed enough by non-violent, massive protests, he will be forced to listen.
if it doesn't work, then
Such as..? What kind of civil disobedience can you do that will allow to maintain autonomy? What good is a civilly disobedient person in jail?
or beaten up?
you think that if huge protests were organized, that people wouldn;t get beaten, gassed, and thrown into jail? Hasn't it happened before?
or are you just saying the attendance hasn't been large enough?
you think that if huge protests were organized, that people wouldn;t get beaten, gassed, and thrown into jail? Hasn't it happened before?
or are you just saying the attendance hasn't been large enough?
xfer
I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
You need to sacrifice, dude! And that includes "autonomy"! If huge amounts of people strike from their jobs...sit on the steps of the White House until they are hauled off...throw red paint on depleted-uranium bombers...burn their draft cards...that's civil disobedience.
Philip Berrigan spent more than ten years in prison for banging on a bomber with a hammer. Until more of us can say we were dedicated him, none of this violence nonsense.
Philip Berrigan spent more than ten years in prison for banging on a bomber with a hammer. Until more of us can say we were dedicated him, none of this violence nonsense.
xfer
I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
I'm saying the attendence hasn't been large enough, but also more importantly: not committed enough. Virtually everyone who went to the protests were going to go back to their jobs, their school, their bar-hopping, what-have-you, the day after. It was fun! It was polite and orderly! Even in protest, Americans have to be pampered.
If huge and serious protests had happened, I hope people would have been beaten up and gassed. A lot of them. When a large number of Americans are willing to get their shit fucked up for the cause, you know they're serious. And that would only lead to more anger, causing the protests to grow, until...you can't beat and gas millions and millions of people all over the country. You'd see Bush's support rating plummet to single digits; his party would force his resignation in order to spare themselves eons of future defeats at the polls (thank God for term limits); and voila, regime change at home.
If huge and serious protests had happened, I hope people would have been beaten up and gassed. A lot of them. When a large number of Americans are willing to get their shit fucked up for the cause, you know they're serious. And that would only lead to more anger, causing the protests to grow, until...you can't beat and gas millions and millions of people all over the country. You'd see Bush's support rating plummet to single digits; his party would force his resignation in order to spare themselves eons of future defeats at the polls (thank God for term limits); and voila, regime change at home.
Well , I disagree.
I don't think anyone should have to face 10 years in prison for something like that, even if it's to send a message or for the good of the country.
He was in prison! So, have a fun life there.
Saint Boris of Russia, czar's heir, knew he was going to get killed but waited idly for his killers anyway because he knew a power struggle would tear Russia apart.
But he got killed!
Anyway in terms of nations, I think people should act and make their lives the way they want them to be. And not: sacrifice just because other people will have a good life later, while you suffer. No fucking way!
I don't think anyone should have to face 10 years in prison for something like that, even if it's to send a message or for the good of the country.
He was in prison! So, have a fun life there.
Saint Boris of Russia, czar's heir, knew he was going to get killed but waited idly for his killers anyway because he knew a power struggle would tear Russia apart.
But he got killed!
Anyway in terms of nations, I think people should act and make their lives the way they want them to be. And not: sacrifice just because other people will have a good life later, while you suffer. No fucking way!
xfer
I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
Well, I think if a hundred people spending ten years in prison can prevent the death of even one White House security guard in a violent coup, it's worth it. Even if one of those hundred people is me.
xfer
I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
well meh, you should move to sierra leone if you want your government to topple every time a bunch of guys with uzis gets ticked off about something. or italy.
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