I think it was pretty informative.
kinda even but i still think Bush will win.
Then he should bomb starbucks
kinda even but i still think Bush will win.
Then he should bomb starbucks
what did you think about the debate?
- Thread starter Buzzard
- Start date
The13thCandle
Member
Buzzard said:
It seemed a little more tame than the last 2. Bush did dance around a couple questions though.
Hawng
Internationaly known
dont care..................Im sick of hearing it all..................
Edit: I take that back , The one thing that really pissed me off, Kerry started with all that "well cheneys daughter is a lesbian" Yet he says he has no problem with homos. ........and when asked about it after the vice presidential debates he said something to the effect that cheneys daughter is Fair game.
what the hell is that supposed to mean ?
Hes cool with fags but because there one in the family of the vice president he got to bring it up like its a bad thing?
John Kerry proved to me last night what a real peice of shit he is............Fuck him and if ( i said if) he gets elected I predict that after his first year in office, he cuts funding for homeland security, intelligence,ect ect, and there will be terrosit attacks every 6 months...........thats why if he gets elected im buying about as many weapons i can get my hands on..........
Edit: I take that back , The one thing that really pissed me off, Kerry started with all that "well cheneys daughter is a lesbian" Yet he says he has no problem with homos. ........and when asked about it after the vice presidential debates he said something to the effect that cheneys daughter is Fair game.
what the hell is that supposed to mean ?
Hes cool with fags but because there one in the family of the vice president he got to bring it up like its a bad thing?
John Kerry proved to me last night what a real peice of shit he is............Fuck him and if ( i said if) he gets elected I predict that after his first year in office, he cuts funding for homeland security, intelligence,ect ect, and there will be terrosit attacks every 6 months...........thats why if he gets elected im buying about as many weapons i can get my hands on..........
Jean-Pierre
Son of The Bitch
"Young people can take money out of their Social Security fund and put it in their own accounts" - G.W. Bush
I'm sorry, I hate both Bush and Kerry, but that right there from last night made me hate Bush even more. Fucking retard.
I'm sorry, I hate both Bush and Kerry, but that right there from last night made me hate Bush even more. Fucking retard.
"wow" G.W.Bush after Kerry answering the question he was actualy asked. I think bush went around alot of times. but kerry fumbled a few times too. Still Bush looked like a morron 
MyHatred
Chief Ten Beers
Sorry, but I am on a no politics kick right now, well kinda my job surrounds me in them but I am taking a break with the posts...I know who I am voting for and I still can't believe there are still undecided voters.....Like Andy Rooney from 60 min. said a couple of days ago "If you have been following the campaigns this long and still have not decided who you are voting for, then you are stupid." He brought up a good point I thought.
Oblivious Maximus
I am the worm
The debate was good. Obviously, Bush won. Kerry spent most of the deabte on the defensive, lying about his record. His comment about Cheney's daughter was uncalled for, and it was not "fair game"! Bush hit the nail on the head on everything.
MyHatred
Chief Ten Beers
Oblivious Maximus
I am the worm
Oblivious Maximus
I am the worm
Here we go again. Just because I'm 15 people assume I know shit about politics. It's sad that there are people out there that discriminate because of age. You liberals love your cheap shots.MyHatredforYouRunsDeep said:
I know Bush started to talk about education when he was asked about something else (I forget what it was, maybee taxes?)
I don't think it was right for Kerry to exploit Mary Cheney for political gain.
Why did Kerry lie about his senate record? He kept saying "I never voted against this, I never voted against that" when his record states otherwise.
MyHatred
Chief Ten Beers
Cryptkeeper said:
I didn't say you didn't know shit about politics I said you have a lot more to learn....There is a difference. I am glad that you are interested in politics most kids your age aren't so it is definitely a good thing. As far as the rest of the discussion goes I am not getting into it.As far as "obviously winning" check out all the other websites other than Fox news( Leans to republicans) and CNN(does lean more to dems.) I think you will be surprised. Actually I did make a pact about not talking about politics until the debates were over so now they are so shoot away.
Oblivious Maximus
I am the worm
It just pisses me off that when people disagree with me, they automatically refrance my age, giving the impression that they are saying 15 year olds don't know shit (ala Muffy)MyHatredforYouRunsDeep said:
I'm not going to discuss Fox News. I'm just going to say that all the attacks on the network are getting tiresome. It's hard not to talk about politics, I know. I just can't help myself
MyHatred
Chief Ten Beers
Cool, then we'll agree that we disagree.Cryptkeeper said:It just pisses me off that when people disagree with me, they automatically refrance my age, giving the impression that they are saying 15 year olds don't know shit (ala Muffy)
I'm not going to discuss Fox News. I'm just going to say that all the attacks on the network are getting tiresome. It's hard not to talk about politics, I know. I just can't help myself
Oblivious Maximus
I am the worm
Hawng
Internationaly known
Oblivious Maximus
I am the worm
Lies and Perfidy
Gentleman of the Road
The New York Times fact-checked the debate.
As they traded charges and countercharges on the economy, health care and other domestic issues, President Bush mischaracterized who received the tax cuts that have been the centerpiece of his legislative record, and Senator John Kerry exaggerated when he said he was proposing clear ways to raise revenue to pay for his spending proposals.
Mr. Kerry was also wrong in saying the president's refusal to allow the government to negotiate drug prices had contributed to the increase in Medicare premiums next year.
Taxes
Mr. Bush said most of the tax reduction in his presidency had gone "to low- and middle-income Americans." In fact, Internal Revenue Service figures compiled by the Tax Policy Center of the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute show that half of all the tax cuts in effect this year go to the wealthiest 10 percent of taxpayers, those with incomes above about $70,000. One-quarter of the cuts go to the richest 1 percent, those with incomes above about $290,000.
Mr. Bush also said the cuts were needed "to get us out of the recession." But he proposed the cuts in his last presidential campaign, in 2000, before anyone knew that a recession was at hand, and he justified them by saying the surplus should be returned to the taxpayers.
The president said, as he often has elsewhere, that Mr. Kerry had voted for tax increases 98 times. That is probably true. But many, if not most, of those were multiple votes on the same bills or on nonbinding resolutions and motions.
Mr. Kerry has voted for two large tax increases - the 1990 budget law backed by the president's father that put the country on the road to a balanced budget and President Bill Clinton's 1993 bill, which imposed most of the increases on upper-income taxpayers.
Budget
Mr. Kerry said Mr. Bush had proposed $3 trillion in new spending, and Mr. Bush said Mr. Kerry had proposed $2 trillion. Neither claim can be proved, because the details of their proposals are so vague.
Mr. Kerry was correct when he said the budget picture had declined from a projected $5.6 trillion surplus over 10 years when Mr. Bush took office to large deficits for the foreseeable future.
But Mr. Kerry was not accurate when he said he had shown "exactly how" he intended to pay for all his spending proposals. In fact, he lists as revenue raisers vague promises like closing corporate loopholes and making the government more efficient.
Mr. Kerry was right that Mr. Bush had opposed pay-as-you-go rules that required tax cuts and spending increases to be offset by other tax increases or spending cuts. Those rules were put in effect in the administration of Mr. Bush's father and remained throughout the Clinton years. With Mr. Bush's encouragement, they were allowed to expire. Had they been in effect, his tax cuts could not have been enacted.
Border Security
Mr. Kerry said 95 percent of the cargo containers entering American ports were not inspected. Mr. Bush said, "We're doing everything we can to protect our borders and ports."
According to the Congressional Research Service, seven million cargo containers a year enter American ports. The fear is that a nuclear explosive that would be hard to smuggle through Customs could be hidden on a ship and detonated in a port. The 5 percent inspection rate is correct, according to Congressional testimony. It takes five agents three hours to inspect a typical containership for contraband when it arrives.
Since 2002, under new Container Security Initiative, American and foreign customs officials have started to inspect some suspicious cargoes at overseas ports, based on screening criteria that focus on certain ports, shipping companies and the like. Some ports are equipped with radiation detectors.
Legislation has been introduced in Congress to require inspection overseas of all cargoes bound for the United States. The Associated Press said a report to be released today would show that the inspector general of the Homeland Security Department acknowledges that some progress has been made but says better detection equipment and searches continue to be needed.
Social Security
Both candidates hedged on Social Security.
Mr. Bush never answered how he would pay the cost, estimated at more than $1 trillion, of going from an entirely federal retirement system to one in which workers could put part of their Social Security taxes into private retirement accounts.
Mr. Kerry never answered what he would do to make sure that the Social Security system would have the resources to pay benefits to all the retirees in the baby boom generation.
Jobs
Mr. Bush has been, as Mr. Kerry said, the first president since Herbert Hoover to have the number of jobs in the country decline in his term. As of the end of last month, there were at least 585,000 fewer jobs than existed when Mr. Bush took office. But jobs are much more a function of the business cycle than they are of government policies, and Mr. Kerry has not offered a surefire way to guarantee employment growth.
Pell Grants
In a sense, both candidates told pieces of the truth about Pell Grants, which are essentially college scholarships for low-income students.
It is true, as Mr. Kerry implied, that the average size of Pell Grants has decreased, shrinking slightly, to $2,399 in 2005 from $2,457 in 2003, with few students receiving the maximum $4,050.
Mr. Bush's assertion, "We've increased Pell Grants by one million students," says little about administration policy, leadership or budgeting, because students obtain grants based on eligibility and tuition costs. It is true, however, that the government has in the last two years increased spending on Pell Grants, to $12.8 billion from $11.3 billion in 2003.
As more middle- and low-income students qualify for aid, and with tuition vastly outpacing inflation, the shortfall between financial aid and the cost of tuition has widened.
Race Relations
Mr. Kerry criticized Mr. Bush for poor relations with "the civil rights leadership," saying he was "the first president ever, I think, not to meet with the N.A.A.C.P." and had never met the Congressional Black Caucus. Mr. Bush is the first president since Hoover to have never spoken at the annual N.A.A.C.P. meeting, but he has met members of the caucus at least twice and has also appeared before the Urban League.
Osama bin Laden
Mr. Bush incorrectly denied saying last year that he was no longer concerned about finding Osama bin Laden.
Mr. Kerry, criticizing the president as shifting his attention from that search to the Iraq war, said: "Six months after he said Osama bin Laden must be caught dead or alive, this president was asked, 'Where's Osama bin Laden?' He said: 'I don't know. I don't really think about him very much. I'm not that concerned.' "
Mr. Bush denied making the remark. "Gosh, I don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden," he said in the debate. "That's kind of one of those exaggerations."
But at a news conference on March 13, 2003, Mr. Bush said just that when asked why he rarely mentioned Mr. bin Laden any more. "I don't know where he is," Mr. Bush replied. "I just don't spend that much time on him really, to be honest with you."
He added at the time: "I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him."
Veterans
Mr. Kerry said that the administration "hasn't fully funded" the Veterans Affairs Department and that "veterans are complaining." Mr. Bush said financing for the department had increased $22 billion since he became president. "We're meeting our obligation to our veterans,'' he said, "and the veterans know that."
Budget authority for the department increased, from $47.4 billion in the 2001 fiscal year, which began the month before the last election, to $60.3 billion in the 2004 fiscal year, which ended two weeks ago. The administration's budget request for this year is $65.2 billion.
In dollar terms, that increase is a bit less than Mr. Bush said. The increase in Mr. Bush's first three years was 27 percent; in Mr. Clinton's eight years, it increased 31 percent.
One reason is that middle-income veterans have increasingly turned to veterans' benefits, which have a generous prescription drug feature, according to FactCheck.org. In January 2003, the administration said that despite the budget increases it would have to turn away many middle-income applicants. It proposed, and Congress rejected, making the drug benefit slightly less generous.
Veterans' groups have sought more money, and Secretary of Veterans' Affairs Anthony J. Principi told a Congressional committee this year that he had requested $1.2 million more in the 2005 budget than the White House had approved.
As they traded charges and countercharges on the economy, health care and other domestic issues, President Bush mischaracterized who received the tax cuts that have been the centerpiece of his legislative record, and Senator John Kerry exaggerated when he said he was proposing clear ways to raise revenue to pay for his spending proposals.
Mr. Kerry was also wrong in saying the president's refusal to allow the government to negotiate drug prices had contributed to the increase in Medicare premiums next year.
Taxes
Mr. Bush said most of the tax reduction in his presidency had gone "to low- and middle-income Americans." In fact, Internal Revenue Service figures compiled by the Tax Policy Center of the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute show that half of all the tax cuts in effect this year go to the wealthiest 10 percent of taxpayers, those with incomes above about $70,000. One-quarter of the cuts go to the richest 1 percent, those with incomes above about $290,000.
Mr. Bush also said the cuts were needed "to get us out of the recession." But he proposed the cuts in his last presidential campaign, in 2000, before anyone knew that a recession was at hand, and he justified them by saying the surplus should be returned to the taxpayers.
The president said, as he often has elsewhere, that Mr. Kerry had voted for tax increases 98 times. That is probably true. But many, if not most, of those were multiple votes on the same bills or on nonbinding resolutions and motions.
Mr. Kerry has voted for two large tax increases - the 1990 budget law backed by the president's father that put the country on the road to a balanced budget and President Bill Clinton's 1993 bill, which imposed most of the increases on upper-income taxpayers.
Budget
Mr. Kerry said Mr. Bush had proposed $3 trillion in new spending, and Mr. Bush said Mr. Kerry had proposed $2 trillion. Neither claim can be proved, because the details of their proposals are so vague.
Mr. Kerry was correct when he said the budget picture had declined from a projected $5.6 trillion surplus over 10 years when Mr. Bush took office to large deficits for the foreseeable future.
But Mr. Kerry was not accurate when he said he had shown "exactly how" he intended to pay for all his spending proposals. In fact, he lists as revenue raisers vague promises like closing corporate loopholes and making the government more efficient.
Mr. Kerry was right that Mr. Bush had opposed pay-as-you-go rules that required tax cuts and spending increases to be offset by other tax increases or spending cuts. Those rules were put in effect in the administration of Mr. Bush's father and remained throughout the Clinton years. With Mr. Bush's encouragement, they were allowed to expire. Had they been in effect, his tax cuts could not have been enacted.
Border Security
Mr. Kerry said 95 percent of the cargo containers entering American ports were not inspected. Mr. Bush said, "We're doing everything we can to protect our borders and ports."
According to the Congressional Research Service, seven million cargo containers a year enter American ports. The fear is that a nuclear explosive that would be hard to smuggle through Customs could be hidden on a ship and detonated in a port. The 5 percent inspection rate is correct, according to Congressional testimony. It takes five agents three hours to inspect a typical containership for contraband when it arrives.
Since 2002, under new Container Security Initiative, American and foreign customs officials have started to inspect some suspicious cargoes at overseas ports, based on screening criteria that focus on certain ports, shipping companies and the like. Some ports are equipped with radiation detectors.
Legislation has been introduced in Congress to require inspection overseas of all cargoes bound for the United States. The Associated Press said a report to be released today would show that the inspector general of the Homeland Security Department acknowledges that some progress has been made but says better detection equipment and searches continue to be needed.
Social Security
Both candidates hedged on Social Security.
Mr. Bush never answered how he would pay the cost, estimated at more than $1 trillion, of going from an entirely federal retirement system to one in which workers could put part of their Social Security taxes into private retirement accounts.
Mr. Kerry never answered what he would do to make sure that the Social Security system would have the resources to pay benefits to all the retirees in the baby boom generation.
Jobs
Mr. Bush has been, as Mr. Kerry said, the first president since Herbert Hoover to have the number of jobs in the country decline in his term. As of the end of last month, there were at least 585,000 fewer jobs than existed when Mr. Bush took office. But jobs are much more a function of the business cycle than they are of government policies, and Mr. Kerry has not offered a surefire way to guarantee employment growth.
Pell Grants
In a sense, both candidates told pieces of the truth about Pell Grants, which are essentially college scholarships for low-income students.
It is true, as Mr. Kerry implied, that the average size of Pell Grants has decreased, shrinking slightly, to $2,399 in 2005 from $2,457 in 2003, with few students receiving the maximum $4,050.
Mr. Bush's assertion, "We've increased Pell Grants by one million students," says little about administration policy, leadership or budgeting, because students obtain grants based on eligibility and tuition costs. It is true, however, that the government has in the last two years increased spending on Pell Grants, to $12.8 billion from $11.3 billion in 2003.
As more middle- and low-income students qualify for aid, and with tuition vastly outpacing inflation, the shortfall between financial aid and the cost of tuition has widened.
Race Relations
Mr. Kerry criticized Mr. Bush for poor relations with "the civil rights leadership," saying he was "the first president ever, I think, not to meet with the N.A.A.C.P." and had never met the Congressional Black Caucus. Mr. Bush is the first president since Hoover to have never spoken at the annual N.A.A.C.P. meeting, but he has met members of the caucus at least twice and has also appeared before the Urban League.
Osama bin Laden
Mr. Bush incorrectly denied saying last year that he was no longer concerned about finding Osama bin Laden.
Mr. Kerry, criticizing the president as shifting his attention from that search to the Iraq war, said: "Six months after he said Osama bin Laden must be caught dead or alive, this president was asked, 'Where's Osama bin Laden?' He said: 'I don't know. I don't really think about him very much. I'm not that concerned.' "
Mr. Bush denied making the remark. "Gosh, I don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden," he said in the debate. "That's kind of one of those exaggerations."
But at a news conference on March 13, 2003, Mr. Bush said just that when asked why he rarely mentioned Mr. bin Laden any more. "I don't know where he is," Mr. Bush replied. "I just don't spend that much time on him really, to be honest with you."
He added at the time: "I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him."
Veterans
Mr. Kerry said that the administration "hasn't fully funded" the Veterans Affairs Department and that "veterans are complaining." Mr. Bush said financing for the department had increased $22 billion since he became president. "We're meeting our obligation to our veterans,'' he said, "and the veterans know that."
Budget authority for the department increased, from $47.4 billion in the 2001 fiscal year, which began the month before the last election, to $60.3 billion in the 2004 fiscal year, which ended two weeks ago. The administration's budget request for this year is $65.2 billion.
In dollar terms, that increase is a bit less than Mr. Bush said. The increase in Mr. Bush's first three years was 27 percent; in Mr. Clinton's eight years, it increased 31 percent.
One reason is that middle-income veterans have increasingly turned to veterans' benefits, which have a generous prescription drug feature, according to FactCheck.org. In January 2003, the administration said that despite the budget increases it would have to turn away many middle-income applicants. It proposed, and Congress rejected, making the drug benefit slightly less generous.
Veterans' groups have sought more money, and Secretary of Veterans' Affairs Anthony J. Principi told a Congressional committee this year that he had requested $1.2 million more in the 2005 budget than the White House had approved.
Oblivious Maximus
I am the worm
Lies and Perfidy
Gentleman of the Road
...the New York Times is the most respected paper in the country. They've got liberal tinges in their editorial section, but when it comes to fact-checking and straight reporting they're completely unbiased and generally unsurpassed. This is a general consensus of educated people nationwide.
