What do At the Gates and Helloween have in common?

[JayKeeley]

I've gotta say, I've about had it about up to here with the melo-death-thrash scene. *points at forehead*

For every few gems, there are a dozen pieces of flea-ridden dog turd. Just as Keeper of the Seven Keys spawned endless amounts of euro-power pop drivel, Slaughter of the Soul has done the same for the Gothenburg wannabes. When will it end?

Seriously, everyone complains about power metal becoming stale and generic, and for the most part that is 100% correct, but other genres deserve equal bashing. Thing is, I'm not even sure if power metal and melo-death are that far removed from each other to be honest.

Melodic death metal has become techno-power metal with crappy screamers on the mic. I therefore say it's BETTER to be an average 'melodic metal band' than a crappy 'melodic death metal band'.

The problem is, it has become so fucking taboo to enter this periphery of 'power metal' for fear of being associated with the likes of Manowar (who aren't even power metal), that everyone thinks they can play it safe and just replace clean vocals with screaming down a mic and avoid the genre labelling altogether.

BOOO!!! HISSS!!! You're not kidding anyone.

 

[NAD]

So uhh... did you like that Omnium Gatherum?

The genres I look to for new music are the more experimental ones, if I want melodic death I generally go for older stuff because you're right, nobody is really doing anything exciting there. Since I bypassed so many groups in the mid-90s I have a lot to go back to as well, like Edge of Sanity.

 

[lizard]

you're right, dude. as soon as one "genre" proves to be even halfway economically viable, there are dozens of followers without the vision to match the trendsetters.
I mean, in power metal there are seemingly dozens of technically adept guitarists who have the flash and chops, but - they lack the imaginative spark in their playing. same with the singers. I mentioned that Dionysus CD...great sounding band, really prominent position in the mix for the rhythm section no doubt due to their great playing, but the generic PM singing just drags it right down, it just becomes distracting.

This applies to of course just about any style of music or metal...

 

[JayKeeley]

So uhh... did you like that Omnium Gatherum?

No!

That was what started the rant. I am so disappointed in that album because I had built it up to be the savior of melo-death metal. I was going to mention it in the "which reviews do you dispute" thread, but I felt the whole scene needed a good bashing in its own thread, not just the one band. I think the album is diabolical and I can't get past track #4 without having to turn it off because of that fucker's screams. They're not even death growls - just aimless screaming like a drunk on a karaoke mic.

I own about 25-30 melo-death albums, and I could probably live with about 5 of them. The rest is just mundane bollock sweat. And for the record, the same applies to power metal but I think it gets unfair bashing. I would choose Angra's Rebirth, Sonata Arctica's Winterhearts Guild, or Iced Earth's Something Wicked this Way Comes over 99% of melo-death any day of the week. But then I would lose credibility because I'd be labelled a 'power metal' fan.

Arse.

I know this is all subjective, and some people might love every melo-death band under the sun, but seriously, how do people write off an entire genre like power metal for being derivative and somehow find melo-death to be innovative? I'll tell you why - because one has scream vocals and the other has clean vocals, and the underground automatically discriminates towards clean vocals a la Bruce Dickinson or Geoff Tate.

you're right, dude. as soon as one "genre" proves to be even halfway economically viable, there are dozens of followers without the vision to match the trendsetters.

But how is this any different to the mainstream then? You get New Kids on the Block and all of a sudden you get a thousand boy bands. You get Britney, and then you get Cristina Aguilera, Mandy Moore, Jessica Simpson, and a million other skanks ready to flash a panty line and nipple.

Me angry today.

 

[NAD]

Damn. Granted, his vocals do suck, but I just ignore them anyhow, luckily he's somewhat buried in the mix. :Spin:

I'm not entirely familiar with much power metal, but the groups that make me dislike the stuff have growled vocals, In Flames and Bal-Sagoth. I'm sure someone will inform me that those bands don't qualify as power metal, but that's fine with me, I'm pretty bad with genres (I used to call Opeth black metal ).

 

[JayKeeley]

Damn. Granted, his vocals do suck, but I just ignore them anyhow, luckily he's somewhat buried in the mix. :Spin:

I can't ignore them - they are too atrocious. Man, how do you learn to ignore that shit?

I'm not entirely familiar with much power metal, but the groups that make me dislike the stuff have growled vocals, In Flames and Bal-Sagoth. I'm sure someone will inform me that those bands don't qualify as power metal, but that's fine with me, I'm pretty bad with genres (I used to call Opeth black metal ).

Dude I think I know you well enough to know that you have an open mind. You can flip between King Crimson, Primus and Carcass in the same breath.

I'm going to burn you a CD-R compilation of the best that power metal has to offer (from my collection). I swear it won't contain a single Manowar song. Thing is, would you give it a try without a preconception that you're automatically going to hate it?

By the way, how did Operation Mindcrime work out for ya?

 

[Erik]

So Jay, how can you possibly complain about Omnium Gatherum's vocalist while praising Moonsorrow as much as you do?

 

[JayKeeley]

So Jay, how can you possibly complain about Omnium Gatherum's vocalist while praising Moonsorrow as much as you do?

Well, I don't like OG just because of poor vocals. I think the whole package is generic - heard it a million times before now.

If vocals are poor, but the music is phenomenal (as is the case with Moonsorrow), then I'll overlook it. But it wouldn't be a 10/10 type album because everything about it would need to reflect pure perfection.

I don't mind the vocals on Moonsorrow, as I am sure some won't mind the vocals on OG.

 

[Erik]

It just kind of struck me that to my ears, the vocalist in Omnium Gatherum has the exact same problems with his vocals as the Moonsorrow guy... They sound kind of the same methinks.

 

[JayKeeley]

It just kind of struck me that to my ears, the vocalist in Omnium Gatherum has the exact same problems with his vocals as the Moonsorrow guy... They sound kind of the same methinks.

But are you trying to suggest that the two bands are on par in the musical arena? Moonsorrow are just so damned epic and dominating, and their latest just transports me back in time.

And what kind of problems in the OG vocals do you hear out of interest?

 

[J.]

I've been saying melo-death is dead for quite some time. It feels good to know someone else shares the same sentiments. I'm so damned tired of all these clones. And it's even more frustrating when you have these fans that'll lap up every melo-death band simply due to the genre they are in.

Like Jay said, you only need maybe 5 melo-death albums, and you've heard it all. As much as I hate their music, at least Soilwork had the mind to change their sound from a blatant At the Gates rip-off to watered down chorus-ridden poop that nobody would dare sound like.

Hell, I've never actually heard Omnium Gatherum or Mors Principium whatever, but I bet I've heard their sound before.

You get Britney, and then you get Cristina Aguilera, Mandy Moore, Jessica Simpson, and a million other skanks ready to flash a panty line and nipple.

Barring the music, is that such a bad thing?

 

[Erik]

I dunno, in both cases (Moonsorrow and OG) they just seem powerless, with his "growling" voice cracking to reveal the normal voice a lot of the time (which can be quite effectful if used correctly; see "The Red in the sky Is Ours" and ...and Oceans.) Moonsorrow is worse on "Suden Uni," where the vocals often seem almost embarrassingly weak (and let's not talk about the "Metsä" demo vocalwise -- I'd be glad to discuss the music sometime though,) but a bit better on "Kivenkantaja." OG has weak vocals, yes, and the music doesn't appeal to me too much either although I have certainly heard both worse and more derivative Gothenburg metal in my days. Moonsorrow is definitely more appealing musically, yes.

 

[NAD]

I can't ignore them - they are too atrocious. Man, how do you learn to ignore that shit?

Man, I've been ignoring vocalists since time began, there was a time that I only ever heard the bass, and had to learn to listen for the other instruments.

Dude I think I know you well enough to know that you have an open mind. You can flip between King Crimson, Primus and Carcass in the same breath.

I'm going to burn you a CD-R compilation of the best that power metal has to offer (from my collection). I swear it won't contain a single Manowar song. Thing is, would you give it a try without a preconception that you're automatically going to hate it?

Man, I am open to damn near anything nowadays, I absolutely adore Radiohead's Kid A and I think "there's no way I would have given this a chance 5 years ago." I'm not going to waste much money on anything but underground metal and classic rock, but I'll give even pop music a chance if I hear it. Just no modern rap or fucking 311. uke:

By the way, how did Operation Mindcrime work out for ya?

Came in with a massive shipment the other day, still in plastic wrap. But I did look at the track list and realized that I know and love about 1/3 of the tracks. I'll listen to it this weekend, give it my full attention.

I agree that Mors Principium Est is the same old stuff, but Omnium Gatherum is highly enjoyable, to me I really hear an emotional quality to the music that isn't found too often.

 

[JayKeeley]

Man, I am open to damn near anything nowadays, I absolutely adore Radiohead's Kid A and I think "there's no way I would have given this a chance 5 years ago."

So should I make a CD-R for ya? More than anything, I'd like to hear your opinions on stuff you haven't heard before...perhaps even ask you to review something you wouldn't normally look into...

Radiohead are glorious.

I agree that Mors Principium Est is the same old stuff,

Just made BWBK's album of the month by the way....

 

[Demonspell]

I agree that melodic death and power metal have more in common than credibility conscious fans of either genre would dare to admit, and both have reached saturation point...

 

[neal]

melodic death isnt totaly dead yet. listen to skyfire - mind revolution.
-neal

 

[lizard]

JK: I did say it applies to any genre which achieves a level of success...and of course you are right, I can't go to a music store without stumbling over some prepackaged prepubescent band showing off their tummies.

 

[Erik]

melodic death isnt totaly dead yet. listen to skyfire - mind revolution.
-neal

Another recent melodic death band which is pretty decent is Eternal Lies, but the reason why they seem fresher than others is probably that they decided to copy Eucharist instead of In Flames or "Slaughter of the Soul."

 

[JayKeeley]

JK: I did say it applies to any genre which achieves a level of success...and of course you are right, I can't go to a music store without stumbling over some prepackaged prepubescent band showing off their tummies.

Sure man - I was just adding to the point that you made with the fact that the pop and underground industries are not necessarily worlds apart when it comes to bandwagons.

And as Dreamlord said, I don't really complain as much when Britney's dancing like a stripper howing off her belly ring.

 

[JayKeeley]

Another recent melodic death band which is pretty decent is Eternal Lies, but the reason why they seem fresher than others is probably that they decided to copy Eucharist instead of In Flames or "Slaughter of the Soul."

As much as I love Mirrorworlds, I find Velvet Creation to be really quite refreshing these days. Sometimes you have to go back to the beginning I guess.

Hey did you get your Forefather and shirt?