What volumes when recording guitars?

[Fredrik-Ablaze]

Here's a question that's been gnawing me for a while.
When recording guitars, what volumes do you run the amp at?
As I understand there are two different ways to do it; either letting the amp work hard by cranking it up loud or work record with the volume almost at speech level.

Which do you prefer/use and why?

 

[Skaldir]

Here's a question that's been gnawing me for a while.
When recording guitars, what volumes do you run the amp at?
As I understand there are two different ways to do it; either letting the amp work hard by cranking it up loud or work record with the volume almost at speech level.

Which do you prefer/use and why?

I'm not an expert, but from what I know, amps are cranked in the studio, because the louder they are the more the tube-sound comes in.

 

[Razorjack]

I run a rack so I've always got my power amp cranked, but when I'm recording I set the preamp level to whatever level get's the sound I'm after.

I usually have to run it very LOUD as the speakers in my cab take a lot of pushing before they 'move'.

 

[Kazrog]

Turn up to 6, it will sound great.

In my (admittedly limited) experience, I've found that you typically can turn the amp up so that it's at a pretty healthy volume, but there's no reason to go overboard. As long as you can hear the full character of the amp in question, it should be more than sufficient level for recording. I don't know if it's possible to be more specific - if it sounds good, it is good!

All this being said, my version of "healthy" might be other people's version of "eardrum splitting," so this is all very subjective...

 

[Frank'nfurter]

As long as you can hear the full character of the amp in question, it should be more than sufficient level for recording. I don't know if it's possible to be more specific - if it sounds good, it is good!

All this being said, my version of "healthy" might be other people's version of "eardrum splitting," so this is all very subjective...

Perfect worded. Could not express it better!

 

[black sugar]

Highly subjective indeed. Just my $0.02, of course...

I'd say you at least gotta get the cabinet and speakers "involved" in the process like Razorjack said, get them to "move". Meaning that if it's not thumping in the room right in front of you, it probably won't be thumping in your mix. How much should they move? Subjective and every amp/cab/speaker combo is a different animal.

The process of involving the speakers will typically involve your power tubes by default, and that involvement should end before you start to overdrive them too much. "Too much" obviously being subjective. More power tube saturation will start to alter the tonal balance of your rig, mainly making the mids more pronounced, at the expense of the highs, lows, dynamics, and eventually your hearing with a 100w head.

Oh, yeah, and there's always this part: http://www.webervst.com/fm.htm

Basically, when in doubt, just leave it on 6. Haha.

Or better yet, demand that Andy re-amp your track though his Krank and Mesa so you can compare.


Edit: I'd really love to hear from anyone subscribing to the "quieter" school of recording heavy guitars. Never tried it!

 

[~BURNY~]

More power tube saturation will start to alter the tonal balance of your rig, mainly making the mids more pronounced, at the expense of the highs, lows, dynamics, and eventually your hearing with a 100w head.

Well this can be useful in some situations to soften a sound when you get nothing but harshness (that sm57 will probably increase). Works pretty good with marshall with poor speakers (g12t75) for example. Some people call it warmth (this is subjective obviously).
Bias balance is a critical point too. Some manufacturers set it too high, other too low. A trustable tech can fix it. This highly improve the sound at average level.
Quality power tube such as SED/svetlana or Electro Harmonix are worth the try too (but be sure to set the bias accurately anytime you change it)
People tend to underrate this.
Anyway, if your sound is awsome at low level, it should sound good in the mic as long as you found the sweet spot.

 

[~BURNY~]

Oh yeah, just remebered this:
http://www.thdelectronics.com/products/hotplate.htm
Or this:
https://weberspeakerscom.secure.powweb.com/weber/mass150.htm

 

[black sugar]

Agreed on the bias point. Proper bias will improve the tone at any level! Most people don't even know what that is... Yeah, see a tech!

Once you know approximately how hot or cold your head is, the Groove Tubes numbering system or Tubestore.com Perfect Pair numbers are great for remedying the hot or cold problem in fixed bias amps without having to add a bias pot.

Eurotubes is cool about working around fixed bias too, I'm just not a big fan of JJ's for some reason, even though they seem to work well for lots of other people.

I love the "Winged C" SED/Svetlana power tubes you mentioned (6L6 and EL34) and EH preamp tubes.

Good point on overdriving the power section to "pancake" a harsh tone. The converse also applies to not pancaking your attack, dynamics, and keeping the low end clear -- finding the balance...

I've been wanting to get the 100w Standard Mass for a long time, just to have more options, but it keeps getting bumped down the list. (I also want to try some Beam Blockers for live use).

I'd advise against too much power attenuation, though. I feel pretty strongly about getting some nice cabinet resonance, and that requires some volume! Just my opinion of course. Also, lowering the overall volume is gonna change the tone, too (Fletcher-Munson).

Like Kazrog said, if it sounds good -- it is good, so whatever works! Just throwing a few things out here...

 

[~BURNY~]

Mmm... Isosonic curves are supposed to translate the way human ears percieve the sound according to the level... Level doesn't affect the sound itself and the way the microphone percieve it like it does for human ears. But you're totally right about the cabinet resonnance...

 

[black sugar]

Doh! You got me. You're totally right about the mic not hearing like we do. Duh! Haha.

Unless it's one of those mannequin head mics like in the new TapeOp. Ok, never mind.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

For my 5150 w/ Boogie cab I shoot around 3 or 4. I get better shape the louder it is, at least up until the signal clips out of the mic....try using 6 cabinets at the same time and post your sample.

 

[Ermz]

Doh! You got me. You're totally right about the mic not hearing like we do. Duh! Haha.

Unless it's one of those mannequin head mics like in the new TapeOp. Ok, never mind.

You can put in the liner notes of your album 'the tracks are mean to be played back at ____ dB SPL'. If any of the fans even know what that means, then you might be onto a good thing, haha.

 

[Fyhed]

Tube amps - loud volume

Electronic like Valvestate series - Lower volumes cos they sound shit after about 5

This is how it is for me