What's with the American government and the crisis?
- Thread starter AD Chaos
- Start date
egan.
daylightdies.com
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
grywolf627
Member
Carlos, just stop posting right now...period. You couldn't possibly top that!
That just made my afternoon.
monoxide_child
New Metal Member
- Jul 30, 2008
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first
if you're gonna quote statistics, you should prolly get them from somewhere that's not wikipedia, wikipedia is frequently wrong
second
the people you describe are the exceptions that prove the rule, the explination of why the shrinking of the middle class is even visible to begin with, is the fact that the middle class was never really a huge amount of people to begin with, the idea that the majority of americans are in the middle class was an illusion created by the creation of the american minimum wage and is perpetuated by the creation of credit cards, credit cards are designed to do nothing but create credit card debt
the "average american with a credit card" spends a dollar and a quarter for every dollar that they make, that's every credit card billing period, every paycheck, for the entire time that they have the credit card or the entire time they are employed, whichever ceases first
lolzgreg
Cereal Shipping Sneapster
Mago
Austrian Blech Machine
Fuckin president stealing my reamp business
Like a BOSS
I stopped thinking about how the world turns. Makes me sick to think about it too much.
grywolf627
Member
I would take you more seriously if you could spell explanation correctly. (well...actually...not really
)
monoxide_child
New Metal Member
- Jul 30, 2008
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Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
I would take you more seriously if you could spell explanation correctly. (well...actually...not really
... Or had any sense of grammar
K Odell
\=/Varnisher\=/
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
Well guize...anyone care to comment on how Dow Jones did today and for that matter Dax and Cac-40? Or what Barroso had to say and Italy? Sounds like the big day is here. Well frankly I'd hope not, it sure sucks that the golden age's gotta break on my back. But I'm interested in seeing your take.
grywolf627
Member
Yeah, was just reading about the 500 point drop. But honestly, can't say it surprises me right now.
schust
Member
yep, nothing surprises me anymore either. actually, that's not true - if something totally positive happened right now in this country, i'd be surprised. what a sad state of affairs we're currently living under.
egan.
daylightdies.com
Oh the old "wikipedia is wrong b/c I'm right" counter argument. That one works better if you actually have any numbers behind your own argument.
I think I even sort of understand what you're trying to say which is: "if you're living above your means on credit you aren't where you think you are." Fair enough, but that doesn't mean there isn't a middle class. Making enough to live comfortably and spending beyond your means are not mutually exclusive. It's two different things.
The poverty line for a family of 4 is defined at $22k/year which is insanely low. Let's double that and a little extra and say the poverty line is really $46k/year which was the median household income from the last census. That means half of the country still makes more than that. If you define wealth as over $250k (the top 2% of the country) then that still leaves 48% of the country between poverty and rich which makes them middle class. I don't get how you can deny that.
Did you just make this up? Go find the numbers. Credit debt estimates vary wildly but everything I found was between $2k-$15k per average household in carried consumer debt balances. What you are suggesting would mean that someone making $30k a year from 20-30 years old would have amassed $70k in consumer debt already (ignoring accrued interest which @15% would be another $100k). Certainly people have done this but to suggest that as "average" is just plain wrong.
Here is another one. If we know the average household income is $46k a year and the average person retires at 65:
borrowing 25% more per year ($11500) @ 15% interest for 45 years = $47 million (compound interest is a bitch)
So, according to your "facts" the average American household retires with $47 million dollars in credit card debt.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's wrong.
- Aug 3, 2009
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I included the 'middle-class' bit only because I've read the expression several times, and how it's gonna get hurt the most-
One would think what happens in the US congress is -ironically- a lot like what just happened (and lots of times happens) here
Sooner rather than not, the debate derails into some technicality, and from there straight into a bitchfest
And no, I'm not American, hence me asking
One would think what happens in the US congress is -ironically- a lot like what just happened (and lots of times happens) here
Sooner rather than not, the debate derails into some technicality, and from there straight into a bitchfest
And no, I'm not American, hence me asking
ArthurD
Member
Well, seeing the american crisis panorama we can talk a little bit about consequences of non-payment of the debit.
Credit nature is rotate money.
When someone invests in a country, like US, it's emited a title of credit, destinated to a payment.
A little example:
China invests at US.
US emites a title of credit to China (value $1bi, for example).
China uses this credit to invest at another countries, so the US now will have to pay to other creditor.
The credit circulates even more.
Then, the US doesnt pay this credit.
Everybody is FUUUUUU ed up.
That's it.
=D
Credit nature is rotate money.
When someone invests in a country, like US, it's emited a title of credit, destinated to a payment.
A little example:
China invests at US.
US emites a title of credit to China (value $1bi, for example).
China uses this credit to invest at another countries, so the US now will have to pay to other creditor.
The credit circulates even more.
Then, the US doesnt pay this credit.
Everybody is FUUUUUU ed up.
That's it.
=D
egan.
daylightdies.com
Sort of. See my first post in this thread before this thread derailed.One would think what happens in the US congress is -ironically- a lot like what just happened (and lots of times happens) here
Sooner rather than not, the debate derails into some technicality, and from there straight into a bitchfest
We have a debt which is money we owe and we have a deficit (budgeted money beyond our tax income) for the budgets of upcoming years.
We need to raise our debt ceiling (our credit limit basically) in order to cover money already spent in the previous budget(s) that congress passed in the year(s) before. They have to raise the debt ceiling to cover money they have already "spent": social security, payments to contractors and employees, etc. etc.
What happened this year is that some congressmen (mostly republicans) decided that they were going to put their foot down on the budget (which hasn't been balanced since Clinton) and insist on a balanced budget and/or balanced budget amendment to the constitution. They refused to raise the debt limit without getting the budget they wanted despite the fact that the debt limit has been raised routinely-- 74 times over the last 50 years years-- and they could force a budget deal independently of the debt ceiling b/c we were also coming up on a hard deadline (gov. shutdown) to pass a new budget next month. The republicans generally wanted deep cuts to entitlements but not the military and did not want to raise taxes. The democrats wanted to raise taxes on the wealthy and close corporate loopholes and have smaller cuts on everything.
Then the pissing contest commenced. No one wanted to compromise much but a small contingent of republicans refused to even agree to the compromises their own leadership endorsed which forced negotiations to go right down to the wire.
The problem was the congress were risking default as the deadline neared but also what happened today. They put so much fear into the market by flirting with (and trumpeting) disaster to win their debate that we've had a pretty massive market correction.
The most ironic part is after all of that we still don't have a balanced budget.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ing-deficit-reduction-plans.html?ref=politics
This is a huge oversimplification but I hope it provides some insight. Anyone who can correct or expound should feel free.
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