I totally missed this legacy, but yeah, I'll second that as the most important thing!
When do you say enough is enough to mix revisions?
- Thread starter AdamWathan
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I totally missed this legacy, but yeah, I'll second that as the most important thing!
joeymusicguy
Member
when the revision is free, the band will go on forever, because in reality no project is ever really done...
as soon as you put a price on the revision, the band will start to weigh the importance of the changes vs the wallet.
;]
as soon as you put a price on the revision, the band will start to weigh the importance of the changes vs the wallet.
;]
Soundlurker
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- Nov 19, 2005
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+1
Not to mention a lot of the studio owners are completely ignorant when it comes to metal productions.
joeymusicguy said:
What if the band is really happy with the mix but you're not? When do you stop if time weren't a factor?
Truer words were never spoken, people will always be able to find some detail they want to change no matter how many changes have been made in the past, but a finished mix is better than a perfect mix.
gabriel g.
Member
3 years ago, when I bought most of my studio gear, I recorded a band from a co-worker. I told him, that I want to work with my new gear, and I do it for free. The band of him said yes and we started recording.
Same garage punk style band but with 40 year drummer and 35 year guitarplayer/singer. I was 19 at this point.
I mixed it and gave them the CD. The guitarplayer was so mad about it, that he couldnt look me in the eyes!!! The mix was "way to clean" and no emotions were left?!?!
OK.... I told them I didn´t aspect that because his was my "rar"est production ever, so I started over.
Nothing changed in their opinion. I showed other people the mix and everybody told me that it sounded nice and like the good old garage days.
They were still pissed about it, so I told them to shut the FUCK UP and do it by their own!!!I told them that they also delete my name on everything because I dont want anything to do with that shit.
After one week they told me how sorry they are!!!
I said ok, but never worked with them again (and never will)
Me and my co-worker are still friends.
I decided NEVER working for free anymore.
So my tip for you :
Wake them up!!! Maybe they dont realize what they are doing to you.
Tell the drummer that all band members should visit you.
1.) Talk with all band members about that nasty mails of the drummer.
2.) Work with them TOGETHER on the mix, hear them out and give them your advise about things that wont work (maybe because of the performance...)
3. Tell them that this is the last version of the mix!!! That you have no time, other projects commin up. And that you wont work for free anymore.
4.) tell them that you at least want a bottle whiskey, six-pack bear....
for all the work.
5.) make some math: Take all the hours you work on that project and multiply it with 5$/5...
I think after 12 mixes this might be around 1500-3000$/
Tell them that is enough work for free for a lifetime
!!!
Same garage punk style band but with 40 year drummer and 35 year guitarplayer/singer. I was 19 at this point.
I mixed it and gave them the CD. The guitarplayer was so mad about it, that he couldnt look me in the eyes!!! The mix was "way to clean" and no emotions were left?!?!
OK.... I told them I didn´t aspect that because his was my "rar"est production ever, so I started over.
Nothing changed in their opinion. I showed other people the mix and everybody told me that it sounded nice and like the good old garage days.
They were still pissed about it, so I told them to shut the FUCK UP and do it by their own!!!I told them that they also delete my name on everything because I dont want anything to do with that shit.
After one week they told me how sorry they are!!!
I said ok, but never worked with them again (and never will)
Me and my co-worker are still friends.
I decided NEVER working for free anymore.
So my tip for you :
Wake them up!!! Maybe they dont realize what they are doing to you.
Tell the drummer that all band members should visit you.
1.) Talk with all band members about that nasty mails of the drummer.
2.) Work with them TOGETHER on the mix, hear them out and give them your advise about things that wont work (maybe because of the performance...)
3. Tell them that this is the last version of the mix!!! That you have no time, other projects commin up. And that you wont work for free anymore.
4.) tell them that you at least want a bottle whiskey, six-pack bear....
for all the work.
5.) make some math: Take all the hours you work on that project and multiply it with 5$/5...
I think after 12 mixes this might be around 1500-3000$/
Tell them that is enough work for free for a lifetime
!!!
joeymusicguy
Member
Soundlurker
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Sorry, I wasn't very clear. What I meant is that you are happy with the mix just not very happy (I used really in the sense of very). I don't know If I've ever considered a mix perfect.
Or do you mean you send the band a mix only after you've reached a point in which you'd release the songs if they were yours?
Or do you mean you send the band a mix only after you've reached a point in which you'd release the songs if they were yours?
joeymusicguy
Member
i don't know, thats a weird way to look at it
i mean, i can easily see a producer being attached to a project and seeing the songs as partly his, but you have to have the mindset that this is a band, and they need a style and a sound and they need to stick out from the rest of the billion bands in the world.
its you're job, even if you're just engineering, to make this happen. i mean its at least 50% your job, if not more.
if you can't get in the ball park within a few days, then you probably need to trace through your drawing board and find where something went wrong
the whole mindset i have is get it right from the get go... im mostly tracking how it will be mixed, and then there's just levels at the end... pretty easy... so im never really running into a situation where im like, well im just not happy with this yet so i'll tweak a buntch more... because we already did all of that during the sessions..
the songs slowly come to life as we're recording them and each step of the way is very carefully choosen.
if you're just plugging in and hitting record, you're probably running into lots of issues at the end.
if i did end up in a situation like this tho, i would work on the mix until i felt it was where it needed to be sonically according to the band, style and sound that i was trying to build... if you dont have a very clear goal of what you're trying to accomplish, then how in the hell are you going to have a very clear end product?
know what you're after, and know how to get there. if its out of your league, then what are you doing? learning? does the client know you're learning with their product?
at the end of the day, its pretty logical
Soundlurker
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Thanks a lot Joey, that's a really useful post!
Some things may seem very obvious and logical, but it's not uncommon that people don't see the forest for the trees, and I think what you are talking about is a great example of this.
Having said that I'll also mention that I'm not a guy that's "just plugging in and hitting record". However, I have to deal with people recording elsewhere (I don't have a place at which I can record drums), who are doing just that. Most of the times they don't have enough money to experiment with different sounds or to buy the different instruments/amps they need or they just oversimplify things and think "We'll record our songs in some rehearsal/studio and give the tracks to that guy so he can make us sound awesome".
Anyway, I can go on for ages, blaming bands for all kinds of things, but as I am writing this I realise that more than once my goal has been to make the mix sound as good as possible, given the tracks I have to deal with, instead of make it as good as possible, period. Honestly though, I have strong doubts the latter is even possible when you are dealing with bands that are broke and part of the dysfunctional music industy in the poorest country in the EU.
In a nutshell, what I wanted to say is that your advice, while awesome, is not always applicable in a different environment (economical, cultural, etc). What you've made me realise, however is that sometimes I go for the sound that I feel is objectively most pleasing. I know it sounds like an oxymoron but let me clarify: you analyse how a different instrument sounds in a variety of good quality recordings and you come up with some image in your mind that is the absolute good sound of that instrument. Yet, different styles have their own, slightly distorted images of that absolute sound, and you have to be able to adjust your lenses so to speak, to be in tune with these images. Or to make it a bit less abstract, let's say Monica Belucci is the definition of absolute beauty, someone will come up and say "Nah, she's too fat", then some other guy *coughMarcuscough* will say "are you crazy, she's way too thin.
Some things may seem very obvious and logical, but it's not uncommon that people don't see the forest for the trees, and I think what you are talking about is a great example of this.
Having said that I'll also mention that I'm not a guy that's "just plugging in and hitting record". However, I have to deal with people recording elsewhere (I don't have a place at which I can record drums), who are doing just that. Most of the times they don't have enough money to experiment with different sounds or to buy the different instruments/amps they need or they just oversimplify things and think "We'll record our songs in some rehearsal/studio and give the tracks to that guy so he can make us sound awesome".
Anyway, I can go on for ages, blaming bands for all kinds of things, but as I am writing this I realise that more than once my goal has been to make the mix sound as good as possible, given the tracks I have to deal with, instead of make it as good as possible, period. Honestly though, I have strong doubts the latter is even possible when you are dealing with bands that are broke and part of the dysfunctional music industy in the poorest country in the EU.
In a nutshell, what I wanted to say is that your advice, while awesome, is not always applicable in a different environment (economical, cultural, etc). What you've made me realise, however is that sometimes I go for the sound that I feel is objectively most pleasing. I know it sounds like an oxymoron but let me clarify: you analyse how a different instrument sounds in a variety of good quality recordings and you come up with some image in your mind that is the absolute good sound of that instrument. Yet, different styles have their own, slightly distorted images of that absolute sound, and you have to be able to adjust your lenses so to speak, to be in tune with these images. Or to make it a bit less abstract, let's say Monica Belucci is the definition of absolute beauty, someone will come up and say "Nah, she's too fat", then some other guy *coughMarcuscough* will say "are you crazy, she's way too thin.
