Which is technically better- pro tools, nuendo, cubase.

[kev]

Hey guys, just a quick question for those of you with experience! Ive been running cubase for a while now, but im just wondering, how do you guys compare it to nuendo and of course pro tools?

Would it be wise to get into pro tools asap? And, is nuendo actually a better program than cubase? (i take it is thanks to the difference in price tag! but how?) The interface seems identical, although people say its more useful for video or something!

Thnks!

Kev

 

[Kazrog]

I've never quite understood the difference between Cubase and Nuendo. Sometimes I wonder if Steinberg even knows the difference.

You should be able to produce great results with any of those programs, none of them are "better" than the others, it's just a matter of what interface you are used to.

 

[A Toolish Circle]

Kazrog, from a music perspective nuendo does not offer anything much more than cubase, it's only for film and tv stuff that it excels over cubase by a mile .

generally i find cubase / sonar to be more superior than pro tools LE by a mile simply due to the 32 tracks mixdown constraits , although with the 48 track count stuff it 's better . but u have to shell out an extra $500 .

if u work in audio mainly , pro tools is the way to go

if u do audio and midi extensively , cubase and logic is the way to go .

as a writing tool , i like cubase a lot . but if u want to be taken seriously as an engineer or get work in a studio or plan to be using a studio to record other bands than learning pro tools ( le or tdm) is pretty much essential

but u shold be able to produce great results from any programs . the current studio i work in uses cubase but i'm going to be learning pro tools soon so that i can get work in bigger studios .

 

[KeithRT99]

the program that is best is the one you know how to use best. pro tools is my favorite, but its expensive. i can work way faster in pro tools. with cubase i have no idea what im doing.

 

[Disconnekt]

I agree with everyone here... whatever you're best at is what's best for you. Also, Pro Tools LE is not the most powerful DAW for native processing... Logic and the Steinberg programs can do much more on a powerful computer. The real strength in Pro Tools lies in the TDM systems, since the DSP cards can handle much more punishment than any computer can on its own. The real benefit in having Pro Tools LE is that you learn skills using it that translate pretty much exactly to Pro Tools TDM. If I didn't care about keeping my Pro Tools skills up, I'd probably be taking the time to learn Logic, Cubase, or Nuendo.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

The real strength in Pro Tools lies in the TDM systems, since the DSP cards can handle much more punishment than any computer can on its own.

This is the exact reason I use SawStudio: It's written in 100% machine code, meaning the language your processor speaks. Everything else, including PT, is written in higher level languages such as C++, etc. In layman's terms, the language has to be translated down to machine code before your processor can read it. This means a massive performance hit. Hence the DSP cards for PT.
Another way of looking at it: If you write a program to have a chicken cross the road in Machine code, the chicken crosses the road. If you write the same program in C++ or your language of choice, the chicken would first have to circle the block 1000 times before it could cross the road. Yes, it's that big of a performance hit.
SS is pure lightning compared to everything else out there. No TDM cards required, either.
You really wouldn't believe just how much power you have on your desktop machine until you run something written in machine code. It's a shame more developers don't use it anymore. There's a reason some of the SS guys refer to that "industry standard" DAW as "slow tools."

That being said, use what you're comfortable with. If you're getting good results with Cubase, stick with it.

-0z-

 

[gumplunger]

This is the exact reason I use SawStudio: It's written in 100% machine code, meaning the language your processor speaks. Everything else, including PT, is written in higher level languages such as C++, etc. In layman's terms, the language has to be translated down to machine code before your processor can read it. This means a massive performance hit. Hence the DSP cards for PT.
Another way of looking at it: If you write a program to have a chicken cross the road in Machine code, the chicken crosses the road. If you write the same program in C++ or your language of choice, the chicken would first have to circle the block 1000 times before it could cross the road. Yes, it's that big of a performance hit.
SS is pure lightning compared to everything else out there. No TDM cards required, either.
You really wouldn't believe just how much power you have on your desktop machine until you run something written in machine code. It's a shame more developers don't use it anymore. There's a reason some of the SS guys refer to that "industry standard" DAW as "slow tools."

That being said, use what you're comfortable with. If you're getting good results with Cubase, stick with it.

-0z-

I'm gonna try out SawStudio - I'd never heard of it before you mentioned it, and being a CS major, this is the kind of thing that grabs my attention. Thanks.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Check your private messages, Gumplunger.

 

[Noumenon]

It's not for osx is it?

 

[Gomez]

I like protools.

Mainly because I have been working with it since Version 4, so I'm used to it. everything seem to make sense to me in with this programs. 2 windows, intuitive GUI, sensible shortcuts.

I stay away from MIDI as much as I can - not required to do my work 95% of the time.

Logic is cool for MIDI, but the editing... IS A COMPLETE JOKE. the other thing I dislike about Logic is the number of windows. Way to many.

 

[ltratt]

Chaps, I can well believe that SS has many advantages over other systems, but in 2006 those advantages are exceedingly unlikely to be noticeably effected by whether it's written in assembler or C.

> This is the exact reason I use SawStudio: It's written in 100% machine code,
> meaning the language your processor speaks. Everything else, including PT,
> is written in higher level languages such as C++, etc. In layman's terms,
> the language has to be translated down to machine code before your processor
> can read it. This means a massive performance hit.

Seriously, it really doesn't mean a massive performance hit compared to fairly low-level languages such as C. Sometimes it will be a small performance hit, yes, but except in highly unusual circumstances (certain limited aspects of audio processing possibly being one of them) it is no longer possible for a human to beat a compiler. Modern processors are so monstrously complex that few people other than (and possibly not even including!) the chip designer can hope to understand the ins and outs of them fully, and the tradeoffs that need to be made to utilise them effectively. Modern compilers are very clever thing and can make incredibly sophisticated decisions about how to translate code, and compilers are getting gradually smarter - while human beings are staying about the same

> It's a shame more developers don't use it anymore. There's a reason some of
> the SS guys refer to that "industry standard" DAW as "slow tools."

In general a well written C program will outperform a well written assembler program because assembler is an exceptionally unproductive way to program. That's why noone in their right mind would use it anymore except for the perhaps 2% of a program which might benefit from it, and these days even that's pretty marginal. Also, assembler code is inherently non-portable. I presume SS runs on x86. If they want to make it work on another processor, they'll almost certainly have to rewrite it. I've been there, and it's incredibly good experience, but not something that I intend recreating on a grand scale ever again. One feels very clever when writing assembler, but in my experience it always comes back to bite one on the arse some years later...

 

[chadsxe]

I have been using Sonar for the past 3 years and have not yet found any reason to switch.......I would never touch Pro-Tools in a million years.....the only reason why the are considered to be "The Mark" is because they were first......there are plenty of other products and companies that won't rape you left and right with so called "exclusive" hardware/software.....

 

[006]

I've been curious to try out SawStudio as well. I have a PowerMac G5 dual 2.0 and I run ProTools LE with a 002R on it with NO problems. I mean, this fucker is fast. I have had sessions with rediculous amounts of plug-ins, instead of using busses for things I just ran the plugs on each channel, suppose to bog down the computer...didn't happen. And the PC we have at the studio is a 3.2gHz P4 running Vegas, we have had 1,000 tracks armed (yes, one THOUSAND), WITH plug-ins, and recording, it asked for more. Of course, that PC was tweaked out to the max, but it still didn't even flinch after 10 minutes straight of recording.

I'm curious as to how much of a performace difference SawStudio offers compared to custom built and tweaked PC's, top of the line G5's, etc. running other "industry standard" programs. And from what I understand, it's only compatible with a PC, not a Mac. The studio owner refuses to use anything other than Vegas, and anything other than a PC. I have run sessions there with my Mac and ProTools to show him that it's just as good/better in areas. But he had very valid arguments for everything that I showed him. Vegas on a PC is just as good as ProTools on a Mac, IMO.

Also, it's kind of difficult to switch to a completely different program after being fluid in another. I have had so much experience on ProTools and Vegas that I have no problem switching between the two. But the studio owner was still calling me at 3am sometimes to ask what the shortcut was to do this or that in ProTools when he WAS trying it out. He decided to stick wtih Vegas, even though he did admit that it was just as good, he just didn't feel like learning a new program. Which is fine.

I on the other hand learned Vegas, Cubase, ProTools, Acid, Sonar, Nuendo, without any complaint, because I genuinely wanted to see what each had to offer. I went with ProTools for my personal project studio setup in the end because it seemed to offer the most with the least effort, to me. Vegas is like that for the studio owner. Besides that, he feels that he shouldn't have to pay a ton of money for a ProTools rig when he can get pretty much the same exact thing for much less. Vegas with Delta 1010's is just as good as ProTools with my 002R/Octopre, for a substantially less cost. I dunno, I still want to try SawStudio for sure.

Besides, it's all the same if you think about it. What really matters is what you put in front of that program. Honestly. Like I said, his system running Vegas and Delta 1010's ran just as good as my G5 with 002R/Octopre setup. It offered the same stuff. Sounded exactly the same. I mean, seriously, you put some good mic pres, and an interface with good A/D conversion, and you're in business, it only matters what you are comfortable working with as far as what program to use is concerned.

I'm building a custom PC pretty soon that should be right up there with my Mac...well as far as PCs are concerned anyway, lol. I am going to start off with Vegas, but I would definitely like to try out SawStudio on it as well.

~006

 

[ReliXKeepeR]

And what about the new SONAR???

I heard so many great stuff about this 64 bits engine etc.

Any opinions here?

 

[Kazrog]

I've tried Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, etc., and I still find that Digital Performer wins out for me. Version 5 is coming out in a couple of months, and I'm very excited about the new features and bundled software instruments.

 

[guitarguru777]

I love my Sonar and ill most likely never switch. That being said im saving up for a Mac .... lol makes no sense i know ....

But seriously i have been using Cakewalk since version 9 and it just keeps getting better and better. Its fast as FUCK and now it supports VST so i dont see any advatages to protools other than it not being as CPU intensive..... its also ALOT cheaper than protools ...

I do 24 track mixes on a PIII 700 with 512 of ram. Its that good

Da Fukn Guru

 

[chadsxe]

And what about the new SONAR???

I heard so many great stuff about this 64 bits engine etc.

Any opinions here?

In my opnion it is great......sure there are a few problems but that goes with out saying in any software......Cakewalk cares about pushing the envelope and trying new things....every update has been huge and they offer just about anything anyone else does....

 

[black sugar]

ITB summing BS aside (glad we haven't gone there yet)...

To me the most important feature of a DAW is Plugin Delay Compensation.

If your DAW doesn't automatically compensate for plugin latency on inserts and sends, have fun with your calculator and figuring out delay compensation for every track. That alone made Protools LE/M-Powered unusable for me. Fuck that. Samplitude didn't work so well either for me in the 20 minutes I spent with it.

FWIW, it was UAD and Powercore plugs that I was testing.

If any of you Cubendo users are scratching your heads wondering what I'm talking about, it's because Cubendo's PDC is very good and you haven't noticed.

Sawstudio just implemented VST PDC (only had DX PDC before), so I'm gonna take a look at that again, but by now everybody in my band knows how to use Cubase, so it's great that everybody can pitch in with doing some of the bitch work when tracking and editing. Not sure if I want to switch platforms now just because of that.

I've tried just about every DAW under the sun (on a PC, anyway) and I always come back to Cubase because I'm comfortable with it. Yeah, I have my gripes with it, but I can't find another DAW that does anything THAT much better that I'd switch. Whatever works, right?

 

[unsilpauly]

I've tried Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, etc., and I still find that Digital Performer wins out for me. Version 5 is coming out in a couple of months, and I'm very excited about the new features and bundled software instruments.

ditto!

 

[Andy Sneap]

I'm surprised since apple took over logic they havent stuck an i infront of it like everything else.