Which mics to choose

HandsOfDespair

HandsOfDespair

Member
Oct 27, 2007
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Montreal, Canada
hey guys!

I'll probably record real drums for the first time this month...I'll record at the studio of my school, and I have choice between these mics:

AE2500
AT4050
NT3
NT5
C418
C460
SHOTGUN
C414 EB
C414 B-ULS
C451 EB
C452 EB
D112
BETA 52
BETA 57
SM57
SM58
VP88
421
441
MCE 5.4
M201
PZM30D

Which one would you take and for what? There is a couple of each. My idea was this :

Ohs: C414 B-ULS
Toms: 421(Maybe my sm7b for the floor?)
Snare top : 57
Snare bottom : beta 57?
Kick: D112
Room: 4050?

I'd like to know your ideas!

Max
 
rather than the SM7 on the floor, i would try the 441. i've never used one myself, but have heard fantastic things about them on drums and guitars cabs

and while a lot of people love the 414's on OH's, i'm not much a fan of them myself - at least not the few times i used them. i would use the 451's if you have a pair...but there's also been countless records made with 414's on OH's so you can't really go wrong either way.

also, on the snare, i would try the m201 on top, 57 on bottom

oh, and kick: beta 52 over D112, assuming this is hard rock/metal you're tracking
 
Well, I don't know about 3/4 of those mics but..

The NT5's seem to be very popular for OHs but I find them very harsh and fake. I think C414's are good.. but just experiment a bit.
I agree with kurtz about the snare; I've NEVER had the 57 on top come out bright enough for me, its always too middy. But the bottom is usually fine. The m201 is a little more scooped, so if its got good enough rejection, go for that on top and the 57 on bottom.

D112, imo, is absolutely disgusting sounding. But then I've heard a bunch of other mics sound similar too. I think its more the tuning. But I'd still go the Beta52 over the d112, but even the 52 is not ideal..

If you have enough inputs, put the OHs really close to the crashes, and then use separate hat and ride mics to define their place in the stereo field. Otherwise all the cymbals get mushed together and the drums are too loud.

And room.. I personally MUCH prefer mono room over a stereo one, but opinions differ. A mono room is just 1000x times easier to get right (centering kick and snare), and usually sounds better too.


But honestly..
If this is your first time tracking drums; your mic choices really don't matter THAT much. Mic placement REALLY doesn't matter much.

New heads. Learn to tune (I'll hopefully be getting my vid together on tuning/recording drums this week). Get good drums.
If the drums sound good in the room, then you can just chuck up mics and they'll sound decent. Its better to spend your time fine tuning the kit than fine tuning the mic choice/placement.

But anyways, I'll have a vid up soon on all this hopefully within a week, so that should help you out some.
 
^ no idea

But honestly, I've got a Pearl Export (which is like.. the 2nd lowest brand of Pearl I think), and even with really old heads it sounds damn good. Toms/kick really, once you've got good heads, tuned well, that's all you need. The brand, quality as long as its not TERRIBLE, really doesn't matter that much.

Snare and cymbals on the other hand, matter a lot.
 
What kind of music is it? If its not metal close micing the cymbals is a bad idea. You'll want more drums in the overheads for other genres.

P.S. try the 414 EBs instead of the ULS on overheads. Theyre an older model and I prefer them personally.

and 441 is awesome on bottom snare as well!
 
The NT5's seem to be very popular for OHs but I find them very harsh and fake
Click to expand...

i'm not real huge on them for OH's either, but they perform pretty well for the price which must be why they're so popular. it irks me that they have no pad or roll-off...and the model that does, the NT55, costs way too much.

i myself have used C414's, C451's, U87's, royer 121's, NT5's, and SM-81's on OH's...the latter 2 i own myself, and i would def. rank the NT5's at the bottom of the list, although i would still consider them usable
 
colonel kurtz said:
i'm not real huge on them for OH's either, but they perform pretty well for the price which must be why they're so popular. it irks me that they have no pad or roll-off...and the model that does, the NT55, costs way too much.

i myself have used C414's, C451's, U87's, royer 121's, NT5's, and SM-81's on OH's...the latter 2 i own myself, and i would def. rank the NT5's at the bottom of the list, although i would still consider them usable
Click to expand...
Yeah I've used C12s, 414s, 451s, U87s, and NT5s and I also liked the NT5s the least and the C12 the best, but who the fuck has cash to buy a pair of C12s? I dig the 81s a ton (own them) but Ive always been very very bored with 451s... But Ive also heard the 451s on great sounding records so who knows what factors in with those,.
 
Mapex Orions are very nice kits. As long as it's tuned well and has decent heads you will be fine.
 
The Broodwich said:
What kind of music is it? If its not metal close micing the cymbals is a bad idea. You'll want more drums in the overheads for other genres.

P.S. try the 414 EBs instead of the ULS on overheads. Theyre an older model and I prefer them personally.

and 441 is awesome on bottom snare as well!
Click to expand...

They're metal, a mix between Opeth and Dream Theater I'd say. Really awesome music.

Thanks for your suggestions!
 
Lets break down the list into what they really are...


LDC:
AT4050
C414 EB
C414 B-ULS

SDC:
NT3
NT5
SHOTGUN
C451 EB
C452 EB
C460
M201

DYNAMIC:
D112
BETA 52
BETA 57
SM57
SM58
421
441

STEREO MICS:
AE2500 (edit: oops, looks like it's not, but it still has two capsules in it)
VP88

CLIP/LAVELIER:
C418
MCE 5.4

PZM:
PZM30D
 
Personally I think I'd go for:

OH's - AT4050's
Snare - M201/Beta 57
Toms - 421's
Kick - Beta 52
Room - 414 (either)

And get that shotgun mic on the highest mic stand you can find, point it at the snare and try to get as much rejection as possible of the rest of the kit. Mix this mic in with your main snare and you'll get a really cool distant but punchy snare thing going on.

As has been said though, none of this matters if the drummer can't tune the kit. Fresh drum heads will help alot. If you know a drummer that is good at tuning kits then get him to come to the session to help you out and buy him a couple of beers afterwards as a thankyou.
 
assuming your recording metal...

C414 EB - OH's
AT 4050 - Under the Ride (near the bell)
C460 - China
C451 EB - Hi Hat
VP88 - Room

Beta 52 - Kick
Beta 57 - Snare Top
SM57 - Snare Bottom
421 - Toms
D112 - Floor Tom (mute some of the ring from the tom and you'll love this one.)

... that's my input.
 
Honestly I like the D112 I think you just need to know where to place it. I usually place it an inch or two in through the hole. Maybe not the best for metal (I'll end up replacing it anyways) but always has come out great for me. The 414 is fat sounding on the bottom. Picks up the round tone of the snares. 421s are the best for toms although all I have are some audix d2s which aren't bad. If you are going to replace or enhance most of the kit I'd go with some sdc like Nt5s. I like the sound of those fairly wide on the kit. Good luck.
 
If you end up not using the 414's for overheads...throw em on the toms! They're great on toms. And the beta 52 is a lot more usable than the d112. D112 is cool for bass cabs, not so much for a full sounding kick (you could try it in conjunction with another mic though, possibly an LDC outside the kick somewhere). If you have time, try different mics for everything. You have a great opportunity to experiment, run with it!
 
I've always prefered the 451's to the 414's for OH's if you aren't after the whole kit.
Beta 52 kick, Snare 57/nt5, 421 on toms, 451 or nt5 on hat, 414 on ride, 414 pair for the room.
 
Thanks everyone for your suggestions!

I talked with the frontman yesterday, and the drummer will have new skins and top shape cymbals. They will tune the drums the day before we record because the father of the drummer knows how to do it since he's a drummer with lot of experience. And we'll retune just before recording just to be sure it's alright.

I don't plan on replacing everything, in fact my goal is to only have to replace the kick and blend the snare.
 
Hmmm bad news...I won't be able to have a pair or C414 for the OH, because they have 1 uls and 1 eb -_-...So I'm hesitating between a pair of 4050 and a pair of 451, any ideas?

And which mic would you recommend to mic the ride?

THANKS!
 
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