Why acoustic treatment?

[AdamWathan]

I know this question has an answer but it's always bugged me so I figured I'd throw it out there. What is the point in creating the perfect listening environment for mixing music? We fill our rooms with bass traps so that we don't put too much bass in our mixes so that it sounds even on other people's systems but the people who buy music and listen to it aren't listening to it in perfect listening environments. If someone has a party and is cranking music through their stereo, then their room is full of parallel walls and has zero bass trapping or high end absorption. Why do we create music that sounds good in "perfect" environments that no listener will ever replicate? Wouldn't the perfect mixing environment be an exact replica of the environment that the music is going to end up being listened to in?

I don't understand how making our rooms sound better will make our mixes sound better in the average listening environment. Like I said, there's obviously an answer for this and a reason so that's all I want to know... I just don't understand why I can't just sit in a bedroom and mix on a set of home stereo speakers if that's where people are going to be listening to the music... Why is it that making music sound perfect in a completely unnatural "perfect" listening environment makes music sound better in a NORMAL listening environment where the average person is listening to their music?

 

[smy1]

The answer is simple: because the average listener is used to the imperfections of his room/listening environment.

That means, if he always has too much bass due to corner placement of the speakers, then he either pulls out the bass with an EQ on his stereo or that's how he wants his music to sound.

If your mixes lack bass, because you have a badly treated studio, they will also lack bass in the average listener's environment. If your mixes have too much bass, they will have too much bass in the average listener's environment, too. So no matter how imperfect their environment is, your mix should still sound listenable to the average listener on his stereo.

Other reasons are obviously, that it is hard to make decisions regarding EQ and level and sound placement in a badly treated studio room, so no matter how bad the listener's room is, it will never be as good as possible (and as he is used to from commercial CDs) for the average Joe.

It's all about what the listener expects, really.

 

[Metaltastic]

Also, I tend to think of it as the same reasons you want monitors with the flattest frequency response possible, rather than hyped speakers, even if that's what most people will be listening to music through - if you have your mixing setup as neutral as possible (via room treatment and monitor selection), it's most likely to translate well on the most amount of systems.

 

[Chryst Krispies]

I know this question has an answer but it's always bugged me so I figured I'd throw it out there. What is the point in creating the perfect listening environment for mixing music? We fill our rooms with bass traps so that we don't put too much bass in our mixes so that it sounds even on other people's systems but the people who buy music and listen to it aren't listening to it in perfect listening environments. If someone has a party and is cranking music through their stereo, then their room is full of parallel walls and has zero bass trapping or high end absorption. Why do we create music that sounds good in "perfect" environments that no listener will ever replicate? Wouldn't the perfect mixing environment be an exact replica of the environment that the music is going to end up being listened to in?

I don't understand how making our rooms sound better will make our mixes sound better in the average listening environment. Like I said, there's obviously an answer for this and a reason so that's all I want to know... I just don't understand why I can't just sit in a bedroom and mix on a set of home stereo speakers if that's where people are going to be listening to the music... Why is it that making music sound perfect in a completely unnatural "perfect" listening environment makes music sound better in a NORMAL listening environment where the average person is listening to their music?

What's worse is when the average listener fucks with your mix that you busted your ass on when they put it into their cd player or computer and fuck with the computer/stereo's eq giving it that bogus
"Disco Smile"

 

[AdamWathan]

If your mixes lack bass, because you have a badly treated studio, they will also lack bass in the average listener's environment. If your mixes have too much bass, they will have too much bass in the average listener's environment, too. So no matter how imperfect their environment is, your mix should still sound listenable to the average listener on his stereo.

This part doesn't make sense to me... If your mix technically has "too much bass" because your room has no trapping and you heard less than was actually there, then the average listener is going to hear the same thing in their untreated bedroom as you heard in your untreated studio, and that's the perfect amount of bass. If you mix in a perfect room and then the listener listens in their bedroom, they are going to hear TOO LITTLE bass because your mix would've had more bass had you been in an untreated room when you mixed it and they are essentially listening in an untreated studio as well...

If it sounds fine in your untreated room, why is it going to be too bassy in someone else's untreated room? If you mix in a treated room and have to lower the bass to make it sound good, then when you take it to the average listeners untreated room you are going to hear too little bass...

 

[Metaltastic]

This part doesn't make sense to me... If your mix technically has "too much bass" because your room has no trapping and you heard less than was actually there, then the average listener is going to hear the same thing in their untreated bedroom as you heard in your untreated studio, and that's the perfect amount of bass. If you mix in a perfect room and then the listener listens in their bedroom, they are going to hear TOO LITTLE bass because your mix would've had more bass had you been in an untreated room when you mixed it and they are essentially listening in an untreated studio as well...

If it sounds fine in your untreated room, why is it going to be too bassy in someone else's untreated room? If you mix in a treated room and have to lower the bass to make it sound good, then when you take it to the average listeners untreated room you are going to hear too little bass...

Well the assumption you're making here dude is that every room that isn't untreated behaves the same, when the variables are way WAY worse between two untreated rooms than between a treated and untreated room.

 

[beyond dead]

if you mix to compensate for an imperfection with your room, then that imperfection will combine with the imperfections of the listeners room and create a very skewed low end. it may sound good in your room, but other rooms will have their own imperfections. your mix will only sound good in your room. does this make sense??

 

[AdamWathan]

Well the assumption you're making here dude is that every room that isn't untreated behaves the same, when the variables are way WAY worse between two untreated rooms than between a treated and untreated room.

Fair enough... But I think any 2 rectangular rooms with parallel walls and no bass traps in the corners are going to sound more similar to each other than a pentagon shaped studio with rock wool everywhere in sight... I would assume most people listen to music in regular rectangular rooms at home and their cars no...?

 

[AdamWathan]

if you mix to compensate for an imperfection with your room, then that imperfection will combine with the imperfections of the listeners room and create a very skewed low end. it may sound good in your room, but other rooms will have their own imperfections. your mix will only sound good in your room. does this make sense??

Yeah I understand that, I just don't understand how a treated studio really compensates for it... I guess if it is as neutral as possible than any imperfections in your mix that are a result of your room will average out across all "normal" listening environments back to approximately neutral since every room will inherently boost or cut different frequencies? Still though, I thought that general consensus was that every corner in a room lowers the perceived bass you hear, so considering 99% of all of the average person's listening environments contain corners, it is safe to say that if you mix your bass lower because you hear more in your perfect studio, everyone else on earth is going to hear less bass because they don't have bass trapping...

 

[beyond dead]

you could put the ideal dimensions for listening environment on the back of the cd!

 

[fatalforce]

People treat their room so that their mixes translate well everywhere, not just specific places. That person could listen to it on their cd player, ipod, car, etc. It gives you the best results in multiple environments.

 

[beyond dead]

People treat their room so that their mixes translate well everywhere, not just specific places. That person could listen to it on their cd player, ipod, car, etc. It gives you the best results in multiple environments.

well put!!
i can understand what forbidden is saying tho. and if you have an untreated room, listening in different environments, and different systems will give you an idea of how to compensate for your rooms imperfections so that is also a good option for someone with an untreated room

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Treatment is so you can make informed mixing decisions. If you got a speaker in the corner and it has some hyped up bass that really isn't there in reality when you lower the bass it will be non existent on everything else.

 

[TheDude]

Ok, let's say you have a standing wave that creates a phase cancellation at the 70hz, and 160hz frequency in your untreated room. You don't hear it, so you crank it. At the same time you have other frequencies that are emphasized due to the same reasons. Let's say 40hz and 125hz. You cut those frequencies because they appears to be louder than Manowar. You make a kick-ass mix with guitars bigger thatn the Niagara falls, drums larger than the Grand Canyon, and a mix that oozes of professionalism.

Now, in the untreated living room there's a sofa. The sofa works as a bass trap that removes the 120hz standing wave. There's also curtains, a bookshelf, flowers and a dvd-shelf on the wall that works as diffusers. Now, your incredibly-fat-low-end-super-chunk-djent-pro mix that you think sounds great, sound like a boxy head-inside-a-bucket piece of shit. People will think you suck at mixing and they'll hate you.

With a treated room, you adjust the right frequencies, so all the shit that appears in the living room doesn't sound worse than anything else with a billion dollar budget.

That's why.

 

[Chryst Krispies]

Ok, let's say you have a standing wave that creates a phase cancellation at the 70hz, and 160hz frequency in your untreated room. You don't hear it, so you crank it. At the same time you have other frequencies that are emphasized due to the same reasons. Let's say 40hz and 125hz. You cut those frequencies because they appears to be louder than Manowar. You make a kick-ass mix with guitars bigger thatn the Niagara falls, drums larger than the Grand Canyon, and a mix that oozes of professionalism.

Now, in the untreated living room there's a sofa. The sofa works as a bass trap that removes the 120hz standing wave. There's also curtains, a bookshelf, flowers and a dvd-shelf on the wall that works as diffusers. Now, your incredibly-fat-low-end-super-chunk-djent-pro mix that you think sounds great, sound like a boxy head-inside-a-bucket piece of shit. People will think you suck at mixing and they'll hate you.

With a treated room, you adjust the right frequencies, so all the shit that appears in the living room doesn't sound worse than anything else with a billion dollar budget.

That's why.

 

[AdamWathan]

Good enough for me

 

[slashvanyoung]

People treat their room so that their mixes translate well everywhere, not just specific places. That person could listen to it on their cd player, ipod, car, etc. It gives you the best results in multiple environments.

Ok, let's say you have a standing wave that creates a phase cancellation at the 70hz, and 160hz frequency in your untreated room. You don't hear it, so you crank it. At the same time you have other frequencies that are emphasized due to the same reasons. Let's say 40hz and 125hz. You cut those frequencies because they appears to be louder than Manowar. You make a kick-ass mix with guitars bigger thatn the Niagara falls, drums larger than the Grand Canyon, and a mix that oozes of professionalism.

Now, in the untreated living room there's a sofa. The sofa works as a bass trap that removes the 120hz standing wave. There's also curtains, a bookshelf, flowers and a dvd-shelf on the wall that works as diffusers. Now, your incredibly-fat-low-end-super-chunk-djent-pro mix that you think sounds great, sound like a boxy head-inside-a-bucket piece of shit. People will think you suck at mixing and they'll hate you.

With a treated room, you adjust the right frequencies, so all the shit that appears in the living room doesn't sound worse than anything else with a billion dollar budget.

That's why.

That exactly.

Mastering was done for the same reasons in the first place, too. You want to have a product that delivers the best possible outcomes on everything from a mono-speaker kitchen fm to the hi-fi system of an audiophile nerd (which is kind of compromise because of it's nature).

That's more important than many might think because people may write you off from what they heard on crappy PC-speakers or even their damn mobile. Had to learn that the hard way, too.

 

[Aaron Smith]

I thought that general consensus was that every corner in a room lowers the perceived bass you hear...everyone else on earth is going to hear less bass because they don't have bass trapping...

It sounds to me like you have it backwards dude. An untreated corner will boost/exaggerate the low frequencies. Bass traps will help prevent this from happening. So if a mix you do in your bassy-sounding bedroom sounds like it has the right amount of bass, there will be too little bass when the average listener plays the CD in their normal setting and expects it to sound like all other professional CDs he is used to hearing. Generally, having too-little bass is not the issue...it's having too much. So if your overly-bassy mix sounds good in your room (due to mixing in a room that cancels some of the low frequencies), then just imagine how disgustingly bassy it will sound elsewhere!

 

[PostMortem1666]

if you cant justify treating your room or getting good monitors. then dont do it. it will show in your mixes. it is as simple as that.

 

[Nebulous]

What about when your mix is played in a club, then? Say it's put on between bands at a gig. You mixed it in an untreated room where there were low frequency standing waves, so you turned the bass down, and the reflections/ flutter echoes in your room give a bright representation of your mix, so you turned the 1-2kHz region down abit.
When this is played next to a Sneap mix between bands, I'm sure you will begin to realise why we like to have these "perfect" listening conditions.