Why do professional albums sound so thin to me

[XxSicRokerxX]

Alright, so it may be my monitor set-up, whats the recommended set-up? I thought it was just: there has to be an equal distance making a perfect triangle from you, left speaker, and right speaker, and the monitors should be at a 30 degree angle. Am i missing something? oh and how high should they be from? ear level? or lower than me? above me? are there any good links to proper setups?

 

[AllanD]

I feel like I know what you mean SicRocker. I heard a Paramore song the other day, and I thought it had the thinest guitars ever. It made me wonder why people thought so highly of CLA, but it's 99% probability that it's my still undeveloped ears/bad monitoring/lack of treatment.

 

[jipchen]

The monitors aren't shit, but not good either.. The biggest influence on you monitoring setup (except for headphones) is the room obviously. Small, untreated rooms with unsuited dimensions can be really bad. Some are better than others but especially the low-end won't be judgeable.. plus your monitors are only 5" and don't go that deep anyway.

Good bypass is to use headphones to help you mixing the low-end right, but you can't really judge panorama and volume on headphones (Well... I can't).

 

[XxSicRokerxX]

thanks for the advise guys, i ended up grabbing a few empty shoe boxes (temp, just to experiment, all i could find) to raise my monitors to ear level. It made a HUGE CHANGE, i cranked up the volume listen to a few pro albums and i could definitely hear it much better, the best word to describe it is more Balanced (it no longer sound as thin but balanced, powerful.) i listened to a few of my mixes and could til that my mixes were lacking highs (especially the hats and cymbals and the snare wasn't as punchy) i could now here the bass lines from pro mixes much better. thanks guys and honestly i think these monitors sounds great now that im hearing them @ a different level.

 

[aramism]

guys i dont think any of this has to do with mastering to be honest. it's just that low end clarity and balance is less "more bass" than you think. pro mixes like linkin park etc. etc. are mixed and mastered to be fair and balanced on many systems. if you listen to them on bigger venue speakers and stuff if they had boomier low end energy it would sound like crap. you ever listen on a good consumer level system or in a sports arena. there is so much added coloration of bass especially that the standard for low end in professional world is not as "bassy" as people think it is. if anything the challenge and skill is having controlled and clean low end which by some people can be perceived as "thin" because its a telltale sign of inexperience when you hear all this bass and over compression and apparent "in your faceness"


i hear so many clips of home based studios with programmed drums and axe fx o line 6 whatever and everything is perceived well by e-critics as far as "damn thats so sick and in your face and so much low end" but it doesn't mean shit in the professional community even though it may seem it has more low end and punch than say a chris lord alge mix or a randy staub mix.

 

[MAXMEDLOW]

you shouldn't mention this. Its illegal. Keep anything like this in PM's if your gonna do it

shut up, jobsworth

 

[guitarguru777]

Since CLA was mentioned I thought this would be appropriate.

I have been studying CLA Mixes for the past few months since I picked up the Waves CLA pack and its surprising how his "presets" are set up in the system. Now I know you arent supposed to use "presets" and that they are just guidlines but I did this test just to show that the OP isnt nuts.....

ALL of the CLA presets tune the low mids and what I call the BALLS of a track in an unattractive fashion on their own. But when put in the context of a full mix it sounds great.

Here are some direct and CLA preset processed stems from a session I am currently working on. Unfortunately the full mix isnt finished yet and I am NOT using these CLA presets on this mix so I dont have a full mix example to show how they work in conjunction with one another, but you can hear on each individual track what the CLA preset does to it. On their own they all sound very thin. ESPECIALLY the Vocals.

All stems were processed using SSL Channel with the CLA Pack preset for each piece:

CLA_Rock_Vocal
CLA_Heavy_Guitar
CLA_Bass

http://www.jasoncohenitservices.com/CLA

 

[SocialNumb]

Yeah, it always blows my melon when I here pro stems and they seem a lot thiner than the crap I try to do. Together though, the shit is awesome.

Thanks for the CLA test dude.^ I know this is my hobby but that doesn't mean I don't want to make it as good as I could.

 

[XxSicRokerxX]

wow guitarguru777 you pretty much nailed exactly what i was saying, thank you so much for the CLA comparisons. Yes youre right it seems like a lot of balls are removed but when everything is mixed appropriately in a full mix it sounds great.

 

[paladin shredder]

I think modern mixes tend to have a lot more bass than older mixes. Go listen to "And Justice For All" or King Diamond's "Them" for example. I think we are just used to having lots of bass in our listening environment now-days, especially with sub-woofers being added to pretty much every sound system.

 

[crillemannen]

I think modern mixes tend to have a lot more bass than older mixes. Go listen to "And Justice For All"

Great example dude....

 

[aramism]

actually this is where mastering IS an issue. loudness can be perceived as more or less XYZ energy (bass, treble, etc.) but mainly bass i'd say because on average systems it is the most challenging to cut through.


listen to the radio. when they blend stuff from now and 20 years ago, the volumes are the same due to additional limiting and compression that is done at the radio station. when the levels are matched properly, there's a pretty even low end factor in most music from now and in the mid80s-present. i remember listening to a tom petty song and then like john mayer or something and it was pretty damn similar. same thing with def leppard then some modern rock band from a few years ago.

 

[AllanD]

I think modern mixes tend to have a lot more bass than older mixes. Go listen to "And Justice For All" or King Diamond's "Them" for example. I think we are just used to having lots of bass in our listening environment now-days, especially with sub-woofers being added to pretty much every sound system.

Don't get me wrong, brilliant albums, but they both sound terrible. Not very good references

 

[Sam Bottner]

Great example dude....

lol i was thinking that too

 

[paladin shredder]

my examples are extreme, but still they were acceptable to many listeners as good quality albums at that time. if mixes like that been released today, the label would have fired the the mixing engineer on the spot.

 

[crillemannen]

my examples are extreme, but still they were acceptable to many listeners as good quality albums at that time. if mixes like that been released today, the label would have fired the the mixing engineer on the spot.

yeah yeah.. but you mention a album with no actual bass instrument hearable thats why it is funny man doough!!! :Smokedev:

 

[aramism]

in addition to my post... seriously guys. heard "back in black" next to a nickelback song on the radio. and ac/dc was as ballsy and beefy.

if "back in black" were to get remastered by ted jensen you would be surprised how it would stand up to modern stuff.


ps - goddamn it's so cliche but such a great sounding rock album. those guitars are awesome.