Woman fined $1.9 million for illegal downloads

A different article that I read stated that she had these songs available on some file sharing site like Kazaa. Which means that maybe she stole only 24 songs, but she also made them available to millions of others to steal, thus distributing them. So there could be a lot more missing sales than you think.

Good for the jury in this case. :kickass:

I didn't think of that angle of it...good catch.
 
The only money the industry lost from me is the money I would've probably spent on radio friendly pop shit.

That's the only money they're worried about..they could care less about someone downloading underground Metal cuz they don't make money off that anyway...but if you download a Justin Timberlake song, they want your head on a platter...
 
B. The record industry continues to paint themselves as an industry attacking its customers

As the article (surprisingly!) notes, the record industry actually changed their tactics a year ago, and are no longer targeting individuals with lawsuits, presumably because they finally figured out that it was really bad PR for them. Instead, the new approach is to work with ISPs to throttle the most active downloaders/uploaders. That's a much more sensible approach IMO, but it's almost hard to believe that the industry is actually doing something sensible in this area!

I'm happy that someone actually stood up to run the process to completion, rather than just settling with the RIAA, so it sucks that the judgment against her was so harsh. But it sounds like the RIAA is still willing to cut a deal with her, so I'm sure they'll figure out something more reasonable.

Neil
 
Actually, the war on drugs is quite easily won... legalize it and tax it.

Then, would be strippers won't get record contracts (and I'll finally be able to get a lap dance from Brittney Spears).

Zod for President.

Pop music can die a quick death, and only artists, to whom the music actually means somethig, will continue to make in their home studios and release it digitally.

The problem with this is that quality will likely suffer. You'll have people who are good at recording making average music, and people who are good at making music making average productions. The act of creating music and the act of recording/producing music are two separate things, and not many people are really good at both.
 
You'll have people who are good at recording making average music, and people who are good at making music making average productions. The act of creating music and the act of recording/producing music are two separate things, and not many people are really good at both.

But you'll have pockets developing where one or two guys get really good at it, and do thier own band's stuff, but also help out other bands by doing it affordably...networking and "all for one, one for all" will once again come alive in the underground...with the common goal of spreading music instead of competing for a record deal.
 
Wimps? There are guys serving 25 years for a half-baggie of weed...

Pelata, I stated my opposing opinion to Zod, because I know that he can be intelligent if he wants to respond. With that said, I'm in no way implying that you're not intelligent. If you want to discuss this subject, then feel free to send me a PM. Otherwise, we should simply let the thread continue on topic of the illegal downloads. :kickass:

~Brian~
 
Just because it's done.
Just because it's supported by others.
Just because some one else has been ripping off some one else.....

...still does not make it right.

I have no sympathy for those who put themselves knowingly in that type of position.
It's all about personal responsibility.
Period.
 
Pelata, I stated my opposing opinion to Zod, because I know that he can be intelligent if he wants to respond. With that said, I'm in no way implying that you're not intelligent. If you want to discuss this subject, then feel free to send me a PM. Otherwise, we should simply let the thread continue on topic of the illegal downloads. :kickass:

~Brian~

It was a kneejerk reaction post...no biggie.
 
Zod for President.
LOL.

The problem with this is that quality will likely suffer. You'll have people who are good at recording making average music, and people who are good at making music making average productions. The act of creating music and the act of recording/producing music are two separate things, and not many people are really good at both.
True. However, I suspect the two groups will eventually find one another.

To be fair, I'm somewhat oblivious to the costs that lie within the current model. That said, I think we can all agree, the model is dying. We are among the last generations that will know a physical format. I suspect you'll eventually see a band grow wildly successful, in the absence of a record label, and that model will become the one that bands begin to follow. It would seem to me, the record company served two primary functions; laying out the astronomical costs that used to be involved with producing a record and distribution. The distribution side of the house is clearly unnecessary. And the costs of recording, with apps such as Pro Tools, are no longer such that the cost of self-financing is completely prohibitive.

Zod
 
Although CD sales are down in the last few years, movie and game sales are up. That would tend to indicate that downloading is not a factor in the decline of CD sales, since a downloading trend would also have dragged down DVDs and video games.
 
We are among the last generations that will know a physical format.

I don't think that's the case. Physical formats in all media will decline, but there will always be demand for hard product. People generally don't lose their CD collections except in fires or thefts. Your download collection can disappear in an instant if you're careless.

People also talk about on demand viewing or listening, but that doesn't have a chance in hell of replacing hard product simply because most people who have been on the internet know that for no particular reason, your favorite thing can just disappear because the site decided to make a change without telling anyone. I've gotten so paranoid that anything I see on the internet that I really like, I save. Tomorrow it might not be there.
 
Pelata, I stated my opposing opinion to Zod, because I know that he can be intelligent if he wants to respond.
Hey Brian... I actually agree with Pelata on this. I really don't understand why we continue to view drugs, especially marijuana, so differently than we view alcohol. Well... actually I do understand why, I just disagree.

By the governments own estimates, the "War on Druugs" (sp intentional to get past filters) has been a monolithic failure. All we've managed to do is spend billions in tax payer dollars to clog up the courts and jails and create a black market for law enforcement to deal with, where none needs to exist. If someone wants to smoke a joint at home, I have no idea why that should be the business of the government, short of collecting the tax revenue from its sale. People will always use drugs. Will will always go to prostitutes. These things will never end. We can either tax and regulate, or waste time and money enforcing Bronze Age standards of morality, and live in a prison nation.

Spending billions to fence off Mexico, so that they can't sell us the drugs we want, and so they can shoot each other with the guns we sold them, seems somewhat heartless to me. While I agree there are valid reasons to secure our borders, fighting the war on the drugs is not one of them.

Cheers...

Zod
 
As someone who has technical experience and understands on a much deeper level on how P2P networking programs like Kazaa and Napster work, I would just like to bring to your attention some facts, especially to those who are siding with the RIAA on this. In order to find the people who are partaking in these "illegal" file sharing programs, the RIAA and the INTARNET POLICE must be on these networks as well, actively searching for content to download, and then successfully download just a portion of the song in question. They can't find and target people who are simply downloading songs. They target people who are making these songs available to others. This is, of course, somewhat unfair, because many of these P2P programs are set to seed automatically, and people are frankly too stupid to turn uploading off. I know Bittorrent will not allow me to download at significant speeds unless I am also seeding. There are ways around this, however, for the sanctity of this board, I will merely say go find it yourself if you're interested.

ANYWAY, so they have to download a partial song from a seeder, to prove that the song file is legit and that it's being shared out. THEN they have to obtain the IP address of the user who is seeding the file (this is very easy), and then must contact the ISP for logs on who was assigned that particular IP address at the time. Here's where things get a little gray in the legality of everything, and how I don't understand how the Juries keep finding for the record companies. The ISP is under absolutely no legal responsibility to turn over the IP addresses of their users to the RIAA. In fact, it's a violation of privacy to do so. The RIAA holds absolutely no legal ground, and cannot demand this information without a court order, which would turn this from a civil case into a criminal case (stealing). No one has ever been criminally convicted for stealing intellectual property, which it seems to me, is what the RIAA is claiming is going on. But, for shits and giggles, lets say a Coldplay song was downloaded onto your computer. The RIAA comes knocking at your door. You end up in trial, and the only evidence they have is your IP address, and, heck, I'll even go so far as to assume: the song on your computer, with Kazaa, in a folder that's shared out. Now, forgive me for sounding a bit arrogant, but there are SO MANY things wrong with this it's unbelievable. Let me see if I can list a few.

1. If there are 4 people in the house, how can the RIAA or the Jury say it was one individual over any of the others? If your answer is "Well, the person who's in charge of the Internet Bill!", fine. I don't like it, but legally, i can't challenge it, because I don't know if it'd stand up in court. BUT.

2. If you have an open Wireless Network, or even a secure wireless network, they are easily hacked and are commonly done so in Apartment complexes, or Drive By Wi-Fi stealing. Even if you think you're secure, you're not 100% safe. Who's to say another individual was using your router for the same purpose? (The same IP address is associated to everyone using a specific internet connection via the same router. I could go more into this if you need me to.)

3. It is INCREDIBLY easy to spoof an IP address. What if, for example, you own a legit copy of Coldplay's CD and have shared your default music directory, ripped the CD AFTER the last time you loaded up Kazaa, say, 3 months ago, and have never actually shared the song in question, but someone spoofed your IP and now you're getting sued?

These are just a few quick examples of why I could never award the RIAA money if I were to be a juror in one of their trials. Too many "What-if's" ... Lawyers are doing a shitty job with these cases, and people like The Pirate Bay are losing cases because others don't understand the technology, and Judges are members of the very community that's crying fowl.
 
i still say people shouldn't download from bands trying to make it, that just sucks...but if you do at least support them in other ways like merchandise, concert tickets, etc.

and to the bands, wake up and realize complaints and lawsuits only make downloaders that much more rebellious and creative, and really don't come close to solving the problem. what they do is really fuck someone (like this woman) who may very well be a pretty decent person.

instead of trying to hinder the progression of technology figure out how to use it to your advantage and work with it
 
I can safely say that I wouldn't have spent nearly as much money on cds without downloading. Maybe I'm the minority, but downloading was what exposed me to good metal years ago, starting on Napster and Limewire. The only money the industry lost from me is the money I would've probably spent on radio friendly pop shit.

Same here. My CD collection has grown thanks to music downloads made available by other metalheads. I hear something I like, I go out and buy it once money allows. If I don't like it, I delete it.

Unfortunately, I think people like you and I are in the minority. I've spoken to many a metalhead who has TONS of metal...but it's all in MP3 form. They haven't bought a CD in years. They don't know what their favorite bands even look like, because they don't have a CD booklet, because all their music is via MP3. It's ridiculous.
 
Hey Brian... I actually agree with Pelata on this. I really don't understand why we continue to view drugs, especially marijuana, so differently than we view alcohol. Well... actually I do understand why, I just disagree.

By the governments own estimates, the "War on Druugs" (sp intentional to get past filters) has been a monolithic failure. All we've managed to do is spend billions in tax payer dollars to clog up the courts and jails and create a black market for law enforcement to deal with, where none needs to exist. If someone wants to smoke a joint at home, I have no idea why that should be the business of the government, short of collecting the tax revenue from its sale. People will always use drugs. Will will always go to prostitutes. These things will never end. We can either tax and regulate, or waste time and money enforcing Bronze Age standards of morality, and live in a prison nation.

Spending billions to fence off Mexico, so that they can't sell us the drugs we want, and shoot each other with the guns we sold them, seems somewhat heartless to me. While I agree there are valid reasons to secure our borders, fighting the war on the drugs is not one of them.

Cheers...

Zod


I use these same statements when I try to argue why the government doesn't legalize Sportsbook betting nationwide.I hate the fact people have to go to an overseas website in order to place a bet with their on money.If I place a bet with money I earned and I lose it,how is that different than putting that money into a arcade machine to play a game.Betting is making an investment in a team or person.No different than investing in the stock market IMO except the stock market is legal.If Joe Bob loses his house rent on gambling it's not okay,but he can blow it on alcohol and cigarettes all he wants and the government doesn't care.I just don't understand why things like this seem so hard for the so-called smart people in the higher courts to comprehend.
 
I use these same statements when I try to argue why the government doesn't legalize Sportsbook betting nationwide.I hate the fact people have to go to an overseas website in order to place a bet with their on money.If I place a bet with money I earned and I lose it,how is that different than putting that money into a arcade machine to play a game.

Because you're opening a big can of worms in the racket of fixed games, series, and the integrity of championships. Not that there's a whole lot of it left in baseball with steroids, or football with criminals, but it's still a can of worms.
 
Because you're opening a big can of worms in the racket of fixed games, series, and the integrity of championships. Not that there's a whole lot of it left in baseball with steroids, or football with criminals, but it's still a can of worms.

I agree with your statement,but I don't think the government cares about "integrity of championships".The money that could be made in each state is unbelievable.Most people say the lottery helps the state it's in,that's probably true,but the money that is spent on overseas gambling is ASTRONOMICAL.If they legalized it,would there be cheating? Would there be thrown games? Would athletes that play those sports start betting? Would coaches do the same? Would refs deliberately make wrong calls? Would Pete Rose finally be vindicated? The answers are all yes.......but don't those things already go on now(well,except the Pete Rose thing)?
My point was this....Legalizing this would help the economy and illegal activity in this category would be stopped as far as people gambling with bookies under the table and people would also stop giving away their money to other countries in order to bet on a game or person.