Would really appreciate input .. trying something different mix-wise...

Skinny Viking

Skinny Viking

¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
Oct 10, 2007
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Yo!

Ok so I'm experimenting a bit with something for my band. Trying for a whole different sound I guess. Different EQs, Comp settings, panning, blah blah blah. Someone had mentioned that my music has an almost 70s vibe with the way I structure things even though the music itself isn't 70s sounding. So I wanted to see if I could get this mix for one of our new tunes to somehow give off that vibe as well in some aspects. Guitars are a lot darker sounding and I have almost no verb on the drums except for one of the snare tracks.

This is only my 1st draft of this mix. Some things are too quiet, some things too loud, you know the drill. Was hoping you guys could give some pointers or maybe just tell me if anything sounds wrong, out of place or just plain bad. I'm hearing a little fizz in some of the melody guitars that I'm having a bitch of a time smoothing out but aside from that I'm actually kinda digging the overall sound so far.

Stare At The Sun
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/594184/Stare Test 3.mp3

I have done NO kind of pseudo-mastering so it may be a little quiet. I don't know how to do it and I have every intention of paying someone to master these songs properly when I'm done mixing.

Anyway, thanks for checkin it out if you do :headbang:

EDIT: I should also mention that some of the tom sounds are a bit "off" sounding. I like the floor toms, the other two sound good but are also a bit mechanical sounding. They need a little fixing. They're a blend of original toms and some random sample I was playing with but I only had one file of the sample, hence the mechanical sound to them
 
I'd say that the drums sound a little thin and too far "back" in the overall stereo image to really sit with the guitars. I'd say find some bigger, meatier drum samples and maybe use a wider sounding reverb. And yeah, the toms sound very off. And almost too high-tuned (personal preference)
 
yeah more meat on drums would be great.
the akustiks sound great
i somehow think that he lead and the rhythm sound doesnt go together very well...
 
Thanks guys!

Yeah I'm definitely planning on messing with the tom sounds now that I finally got my link for my Slate gogs and all. As for the drums sounding a bit "far back", thats actually a bit of what I was trying to do. I wanted them to cut through with everything thats going on without being any more dominating than anything else. I guess overall thats what I was trying to hit with this ... the bass, drums and guitars all being really equal.

@ Mago - yeah I'm actually digging the darker rhythm guitar sound but I agree that the lead tone seems too harsh and isn't blending very well. I've been having a real tough time for some reason getting them to cut through but sounding very smooth

Anyone else?
 
i think the rhythm sound is cool, but a tad too dark for me, i'd prefer some more highs
yeah has to be a PITA to find balance for the leads
 
Yo Carlos, pretty cool dude, though level wise things are a bit skewed IMO; the snare is too loud, and I'd prefer for the guitars to be panned farther out (hard to tell since there's a lot of layering in parts, but it doesn't feel wide enough to me) - also, I dig the upper end of the bass, but I can't really hear much fullness from it. Are these real drums? They sound good for real drums, but still pretty raw IMO. Cool vox, though they sound a bit small; what mic did you use? I dig the song man, cool folky vibes, and I like all the layered guitar lines :headbang:
 
Metaltastic said:
Yo Carlos, pretty cool dude, though level wise things are a bit skewed IMO; the snare is too loud, and I'd prefer for the guitars to be panned farther out (hard to tell since there's a lot of layering in parts, but it doesn't feel wide enough to me) - also, I dig the upper end of the bass, but I can't really hear much fullness from it. Are these real drums? They sound good for real drums, but still pretty raw IMO. Cool vox, though they sound a bit small; what mic did you use? I dig the song man, cool folky vibes, and I like all the layered guitar lines :headbang:
Click to expand...

Yo Marcus!

Thanks man, appreciate you taking the time to give it a listen :kickass:

Lets see .... Guitars are panned pretty far, 4 tracks of rhythm 100 LR & 80 LR so I guess I could try putting the 80s to 90s and see how it sounds. The bass I'm struggling with. When I seem to get the top end clarity I'm looking for the low end goes bye bye and when I get more fullness and warmth I lose all the note definition and edge. Don't know if its because I don't use things like limiters and clippers and all that shit :D Just compression & EQ and I always try to not squash the bass too much. I like to keep some dynamics in things

Drums are real. 2 tracks of snare, triggered track is just from a gog I made from a couple of his clean hits. Kicks are 75% his actual kick and the rest is a sample (one of Lasse's I believe). Toms are 50% actual toms and then some random sample I found for each. The rawness is actually part of what I was hoping for to be honest. Like I was trying to explain in my original post, I was trying to approach things from a more natural, 70s perspective with some of the tones

Vocals were recorded with Neumann U87 I believe. The vocals probably sound a bit smaller cause I'm actually running his voice through a verb on the main track instead of using a send like I normally do. Again, the 70s thing (or my take on it) ... wanted the vocals a little bit more washed out sounding and just felt like I had more control adjusting the wet/dry balance directly off the main vocal.

Glad you like the tune man. My bro and I wrote it a few years ago .. he's also the one playing the drums on here although he's a MUCH better bass player. We wrote it in about 1/2 hour, just 2 acoustics and a bottle of rum (yo ho ho). Funny how 2 acoustics turns into 10 guitar tracks when you leave me alone with it long enough hahahaha :lol:
 
another thought...

I notice a lot of times that while listening to stuff as I play it back in PT, things such as the way I have instruments panned are more blatant but then seem to become more narrow when I bounce a test mix. Case in point, the guitars in the track ... 4 tracks 100% LR & 80% LR. When listening in PT, they sound very wide but after bouncing down the seem squeezed a little further in. Could this be a result of my DA conversion? I know Mboxs don't have the best converters and I'm looking to eventually get an API A2D which I'm sure would help a LOT with many aspects of sound both in and out of PT ... but could that be the root of the stereo imaging problem I've kinda noticed?
 
Possibly, though what do you use to listen to music outside of PT? If it's still the MBOX, then the DA section probably isn't to blame; maybe a pan law issue within PT - but I don't really think it was the rhythms, more the leads/melodies that felt kinda dense around the center; don't be afraid to bring them out a bit! (I often pan harmonies between 40-50 L/R) Also, a bit more delay to push 'em back a bit would probably help, and while I dig the snare for being natural, I think blending in a sample to fatten it up and give it more "pop" would probably help. I hear ya on bass being difficult to wrangle; maybe try the trick of duplicating the track, and having one high-passed for grit and the other low-passed and smashed to hell for the bottom end? (and probably less distortion on the low-end one, though I haven't been too crazy about just using the DI like some suggest) - Pod Farm has surprisingly cool sounding bass emulation though, give it a try if you haven't already! (I really like the RAT model going into the SVT classic model, with the 8x10 cab + Tube 47 close mic)
 
Metaltastic said:
Possibly, though what do you use to listen to music outside of PT? If it's still the MBOX, then the DA section probably isn't to blame; maybe a pan law issue within PT - but I don't really think it was the rhythms, more the leads/melodies that felt kinda dense around the center; don't be afraid to bring them out a bit! (I often pan harmonies between 40-50 L/R) Also, a bit more delay to push 'em back a bit would probably help, and while I dig the snare for being natural, I think blending in a sample to fatten it up and give it more "pop" would probably help. I hear ya on bass being difficult to wrangle; maybe try the trick of duplicating the track, and having one high-passed for grit and the other low-passed and smashed to hell for the bottom end? (and probably less distortion on the low-end one, though I haven't been too crazy about just using the DI like some suggest) - Pod Farm has surprisingly cool sounding bass emulation though, give it a try if you haven't already! (I really like the RAT model going into the SVT classic model, with the 8x10 cab + Tube 47 close mic)
Click to expand...

Usually when I bounce down a mix out of PT I'll make an mp3 out of it (LAME) and then check it on a couple different sets of speakers, computer, car, etc.. I figure if it sounds good as an mp3 that means I'm going in the right direction. As for panning laws in PT, I'm under the impression that you can't change them and to be honest, I'm not too sure how it all works. I read up on it before but it made my head hurt :D

As for the leads, melodies, etc .. I had them anywhere from 35 LR to 50, except for the acoustics which I had out to 70. I can try adding in a bit more delay to them, maybe that would help kill some of the harshness I was getting from them. The snare does have a sample blended in. 1st track of snare is completely natural, no gate, all the beautiful bleed in the world ... 2nd snare track is just from several clean hits he did off a different snare. As a matter of personal preference, I usually dig more of a "smack" sound with snares than "pop" but I have to admit I'm a little confused now cause I thought you said earlier you thought the snare was too loud? Maybe I'll just try messing with the balance between actual and 2nd snare track. Bass, yeah ... I was thinking about trying the duplicate thing with seperate processing but I wasn't sure about it cause I thought that by just making a duplicate, seperate processing or not, I'd have some phasing issues right? I only have 1 bass track, there was no DI for it otherwise I would just try doing something with that.

I might take a look at POD Farm ... don't have that but I really don't have much in the way of bass processing plugs or anything, just a couple of freebie vsts and then my usual EQs & Comps

I'm gonna bump this later with a stripped down, revised version ... just drums, bass, a rhythm guitars ... trying to get the foundation as balanced and strong sounding as I can with the suggestions I've gotten so far :headbang:

EDIT: It just occured to me that with the bass thing, phasing shouldn't be too much of an issue cause my Eqs have a phase flip switch. That should help if I run into trouble :D
 
Ok I'm bumping this ...

Here is a very stripped down version, just drums, main guitars and bass

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/594184/Stare Test 4.mp3

Trying to get my foundation better. There may be a few channels I forgot to mute (acoustics, a small lead thing) so don't pay attention to those if you hear something pop up. Personally, I think its getting there but would love some of your opinions. Mago, Marcus .. anyone?
 
the guitars sound good, i guess id tweak it a bit EQ wise (some hollow freqs, and a little little fizz id get rid of), but tastes are different on that one.
id try to give the mix a bit more low end, raising the bass or giving it more bass. i dont know how fat you want your mix.
any progress on the leadsound?
 
Mago said:
the guitars sound good, i guess id tweak it a bit EQ wise (some hollow freqs, and a little little fizz id get rid of), but tastes are different on that one.
id try to give the mix a bit more low end, raising the bass or giving it more bass. i dont know how fat you want your mix.
any progress on the leadsound?
Click to expand...

I'm not even gonna bother with the lead sound yet until I nail the foundation ;)

I have a high shelf running on the guitars boosted by like 6 db ... I was already thinking about bringing it down to about 4db and seeing what that sounded like. Might be where the little bit of extra fizz is coming from Not too sure I know what you mean by "hollow frequencies" :loco:

As for the bass, I was actually thinking about bringing the bass down overall by a couple dbs but yeah, I can extend the low end a little more and see what that may sound like, though to be honest, right now on my pc speakers it seems pretty round sounding in the bottom end. As for how fat I want the mix, actually not too fat. I'm really striving for something very well balanced to leave as many possibilities for the mastering engineer.

Once I get the foundation just where I want it, thats when I'll really start messing with the lead and melody guitar sounds cause I'm pretty satisfied with the acoustic sounds. Thanks for checkin it out again man, I appreciate the input and suggestions. I do feel like its moving in a better direction though, I'm actually kinda happy with it so far even though I know it can and will be better

Cheers!
 
guess its a good idea to nail the basis and fuck around with the pita later ; )
haha man how can i describe it...i dunno, i german i would say there are some hollow freqs...erm...like did you put some really narrow heavy scoops on the guitar? maybe thats what im referring to...

as for the bass i just can say that on my monitors it lacks some, also compared to other stuff. but maybe you dont need that much bass, as you dont want to go in a very fat direction with the sound ;)
the akustik sound is GREAT! what mic/guitar was that btw?
your deffenitly moving in the right direction dude \m/
 
Hmmm ... don't think I have any narrow, deep scoops. A few notches here and there and then I think I carved out a small wide spot somewhere to make room for all the vocals but thats about it. I'll take a look at my EQs later and see what I have going on ... maybe I can bring up the dbs in a few spots

The acoustic, ja, thats a good question :D hahaha I'm not sure what kind it was, recording those acoustic parts was more of an afterthought and it gave me something to do while my singer was having a smoke break. The acoustic just happened to be laying around and had new strings on it so I tuned it down and it worked pretty good. If I'm not mistaken the mic used was the same Neumann we used for the vocals, into a UA 2-610. Only other processing is I have a pretty wide and deep cut in the lower mids / mids to make room for everything

I'm gonna try part of your suggestion with the bass. Give it a little more extension in the low end but I'm also gonna pull back a couple dbs on it ... I just don't want to lose any of the more intricate parts ... I tend to write busy basslines and hate it when some of the parts I really like get lost :p

I like my basslines more than my guitar parts most of the time! hahaha
 
thanks for the info!
I knew i should have bought some new strings for the acoustic guitar before doing some test recordings. but at least i was right with doing them with the vocal mics^^

Go easy on the guitars and bass. after all its just my personal taste ; )
 
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