Älvefärd

[Mantis]

I found out this medieval ballad maybe Vintersorg took inspiration for Otyg debut album

Älvefärd

1 Jagh war Migh en fager Vnger Swen
och skulle rijda til Hofwa.
Rider Jagh vth om en affton stund,
legger Migh i Rosenlund at soffwa.
- Sedan Jagh henne först sågh.
2 Jagh lade migh vnder en lind så gröen,
Mine ögon fingo en dwahla.
Der kommo twå Jungfruer gåendes fram
dhe wille alt medh Migh tahla.
3 Den ena klappar migh på min kind.
Andra hwisker I mit öra,
Statt vp fager Vnge Swen
Om tigh lyster Elskogh pröffwa.
4 Dhe ledde fram en Jungfru,
hennes håår däth glimbde som Guld,
Statt vp fager Vnger Swen,
Om du äst frögdefull.
5 Dän tridie begynte en Wijsa at siunga
thet gjorde hoon af en godh willje
der wedh stadnad’ den stride Ström
som föer war wahn at rinna.
6 Stadnade då den stride Ström
som föer war wahn at rinna
Och hinden medh sine brune håår
förgath hwart hoon skulle springa.
7 Jagh stegh Migh af Jorden Vp,
och stödde Migh widh mit swerd
Dhe Elfwe qwinnor dantza ihn och vth,
Alt hade dhe Elfwe ferd.
8 Had’icke lyckan warit Migh så
att hanen slagit vth sine winger
Så hade Jagh soffwit i Berget den
allt hoos dhe Elfwe qwinnor
- Sedan Jagh henne först sågh.

 

[Thidrek]

Fucking Dyslexia

But this is interesting! Is there any modern recording of this song? Where have you found it?


The lyrical I calls himself a "fager unger Sven" (brave boy Sven) - Is this any special saying or anything like this? Since he appears in the folk song "Herr Mannelig" aswell:
Bergatroliet friade till fager ungersven
Hon hade en falskeliger tunga

 

[amf]

Cool! Do you know what century it is from? It seems fairly old, yet not so much as to make it overly difficult to read.

The lyrical I calls himself a "fager unger Sven" (brave boy Sven) - Is this any special saying or anything like this? Since he appears in the folk song "Herr Mannelig" aswell:
Bergatroliet friade till fager ungersven
Hon hade en falskeliger tunga

Yep. Sven also means young man or bachelor. And Projekt Runeberg's Svensk etymologisk ordbok tells me ungersven (or unger sven in its older form) is used with the same meaning.

 

[Mantis]

Fucking Dyslexia

But this is interesting! Is there any modern recording of this song? Where have you found it?


The lyrical I calls himself a "fager unger Sven" (brave boy Sven) - Is this any special saying or anything like this? Since he appears in the folk song "Herr Mannelig" aswell:
Bergatroliet friade till fager ungersven
Hon hade en falskeliger tunga

In a book anthology of various svenska medeltida folkvisor, translated in Italian for the first time, don't know if it exists in modern swedish, I think not as I suppose most of Swedes can read it with some glossary tips
I know in nynorsk there is "svein" meaning "lad" also "ungersvein" and also, cannot collect if 1800 danish-norsk, "svend" (I'm not sure becuase this would imply a "svenn" cfr.> "mund>munn")

 

[paradoxile]

so that's what old swedish looks like
I can actually understand some of it...weeeee dyslexia to da face

 

[Thidrek]

it's not old swedish, it's modern swedish but with a different style of writing. since there wasn't any real orthography back then. Old Swedish is far older and looks like this:
Værþer maþer stolen, vrækær fiæt æptir, fællir i kæfti, fyrst skal by letæ.


thanks, amf. I already thought that but when I tried to look up "sven" in tho dictionary I did not get any result

 

[Mantis]

Cool! Do you know what century it is from? It seems fairly old, yet not so much as to make it overly difficult to read.

Recorded in Västergötland around 1670 so yes pretty old
more infos as soon as I end the book

 

[paradoxile]

it's not old swedish, it's modern swedish but with a different style of writing. since there wasn't any real orthography back then. Old Swedish is far older and looks like this:
Værþer maþer stolen, vrækær fiæt æptir, fællir i kæfti, fyrst skal by letæ.


thanks, amf. I already thought that but when I tried to look up "sven" in tho dictionary I did not get any result

you're right about it not being old swedish... but it's not modern swedish either...it can't be if it was written in the 17th century
it's middle swedish spoken in the 16-17 century that later had several revisions through the 18-19 centuries.
modern swedish has come into use only at the very end of the 19th century.

 

[amf]

it's not old swedish, it's modern swedish but with a different style of writing. since there wasn't any real orthography back then. Old Swedish is far older and looks like this:
Værþer maþer stolen, vrækær fiæt æptir, fællir i kæfti, fyrst skal by letæ.


thanks, amf. I already thought that but when I tried to look up "sven" in tho dictionary I did not get any result

Actually gammalsvenska (Old Swedish) usuallty refers to non-modern Swedish which is still not so old as to be called Ancient Swedish.


And to really bore you:

Fornsvenska - Ancient Swedish (800-1526)
- Runsvenska - (Runic Swedish (800-1225)
- Klassisk fornsvenska or äldre fornsvenska - Classical Ancient Swedish or Older Ancient Swedish (1225-1375)
- Yngre fornsvenska - Younger Ancient Swedish (1375-1526)

Nysvenska - New Swedish (1526-1900)
Äldre nysvenska - Older New Swedish (1526-1732) This is what is often called gammalsvenska (Old Swedish)
Yngre nysvenska - Younger New Swedish (1732-1900)

Nusvenska - Present Swedish (1900 - )



(Compile with quite a bit of Wikipedic help... )

 

[lord_storm]

Hello

her er en "nusvenska" version af Älvefärd folkevise.

Med venlig hilsen,
S.


Älvefärd

1.
Jag var mig en fager unger-
sven
och skulle rida till hova;
rider jag ut om en aftonstund,
lägger mig i rosenlund att
sova.
Sedan jag heme först såg.

2.
Jag lade mig under en lind så
grön,
mina ögon fingo en dvala;
där kommo två jungfruer gå-
endes fram,
de ville allt med mig tala.

3.
Den ena klappar mig pä min
kind,
andra viskar i mitt öra:
"Statt upp, fagre ungersven,
om dig lyster älskog pröva!"

4.
De ledde fram en jungfru,
hennes hår det glimde som
guld:
"Statt upp, fagre ungersven,
om du äst fröjdefull."

5.
Den tridje begynte en visa att
sjunga,
det gjorde hon av en god vilje;
därvid stadnad´ den stride
ström,
som förr var van att rinna.

6.
Stadnade då den stride ström,
som förr var van att rinna,
och hinden med sine brune hår
förgat, vart hon skulle springa.

7.
Jag stog mig av jorden upp
och stödde mig vid mitt svärd;
de älvekvinnor dantsa in och
ut,
allt hade de älvefärd.

8.
Had´ icke lyckan varit mig så
god,
att hanen slagit ut sine vingar,
så hade jag sovit i berget den
natt,
allt hos de älvelkvinnor.
Sedan jag henne först såg.

 

[paradoxile]

Actually gammalsvenska (Old Swedish) usuallty refers to non-modern Swedish which is still not so old as to be called Ancient Swedish.


And to really bore you:

Fornsvenska - Ancient Swedish (800-1526)
- Runsvenska - (Runic Swedish (800-1225)
- Klassisk fornsvenska or äldre fornsvenska - Classical Ancient Swedish or Older Ancient Swedish (1225-1375)
- Yngre fornsvenska - Younger Ancient Swedish (1375-1526)

Nysvenska - New Swedish (1526-1900)
Äldre nysvenska - Older New Swedish (1526-1732) This is what is often called gammalsvenska (Old Swedish)
Yngre nysvenska - Younger New Swedish (1732-1900)

Nusvenska - Present Swedish (1900 - )



(Compile with quite a bit of Wikipedic help... )

that's seems about right...New Swedish is often reffered to as middle Swedish (as I did) in order not be confused it with the modern swedish which is as we both said spoken since the beginning of the 20th century

anyway swedish is teh sex!

 

[Mantis]

Thanx lord_storm

So I ended the book my first consideration is: why most of the folkvisor I encountered were recorded in southern Sweden? My opinion is that in southern lands there were more courts so that poets and scholars were able to record ballads, as the author of the book says that ballads came from both on a "witty" side of the court and on popular side, while, maybe, in northern Sweden as there were less "study-centers", no-one cared to record popular songs, nevertheless in Norrland or far northern-borders there were surely a lot of folk legends
wait for clearance

 

[amf]

Thanx lord_storm

So I ended the book my first consideration is: why most of the folkvisor I encountered were recorded in southern Sweden? My opinion is that in southern lands there were more courts so that poets and scholars were able to record ballads, as the author of the book says that ballads came from both on a "witty" side of the court and on popular side, while, maybe, in northern Sweden as there were less "study-centers", no-one cared to record popular songs, nevertheless in Norrland or far northern-borders there were surely a lot of folk legends
wait for clearance

Originally Swedes lived in the southern parts of the country and the Lapps in the north, traded with each other and such. There was an attempt to convert the Lapps to christianity in the 17th century, but it didn't go all that well. A more successful christianization atempt was made in I think the 19th century. Before that Norrland wasnt really Swedish in the strictest sense. A few Swedish settlers mainly along the eastern coast, but inland there were only wilderness and the nomadic Sami.

So yea, the south has had cities, courts and universities for hundreds and hundreds of years, so naturally there's much more of its history and culture recorded on paper. Sami traditions and stories were mainly oral (not sure they even had an alphabet before they adopted the latin one). But of course there's plenty of folk legends from there, both from the Lapps and the north-dwelling Swedes.

Like the quite brutal tales of the giant Stallo and his blood-sucking wife, that scared the crap out of me when I was little.

 

[paradoxile]

speaking of Sami...has anyone seen the norweigan film Svidd Neger(don't be alarmed by the title...it's not nazi or anything)it's Erik Smith Meyer's film...it has a soundtrack by Ulver

 

[Mantis]

Wow amf, I never heard a folk-tale of bloodsucking beings different from eastern Europe folk-tales (slavic vampires), is such a thing present also in traditional swedish folk-tales? I'd be also curious to know in the rest of Europe, so Germans come on and speak it loud

@paradoxile I heard it connected to Ulver's soudtrax (which I listened to) but the fact that it is spoken in a language different from mine and english is a big obstacle for me to go and try 'n find it

 

[Thidrek]

The borders between German sagas and fairy tales are blurred. There are quite alot of fairy tales that stem from the Germanic belief. There is for example this tale of a girl, which is not very favoured by her stepmother, as usual , and one day she fell into a well and woke up in some kin of a parallel world where she met Frau Holle. That girl had to work for her for some time and was rewarded with alot of gold. She got back into the real world and her stepmother, that was really greedy, wanted her german (no pun intended ) daughter to fall into that well. She did it, woke up at Frau Holle's, had to work but she was too lazy, so she got back with a bunch of coal (I think so). After that event, the stepmother prefered her stepdaughter.
To cut a long story short: Frau Holle is related to the Nordic/Germanic underworld goddess Hel, that, as far as I remember, was also able to revive people and was not, like the Christian devil, only evil for there is no Heaven for the common people.

 

[paradoxile]

i found english subtitles without any problem

 

[Mantis]

The borders between German sagas and fairy tales are blurred. There are quite alot of fairy tales that stem from the Germanic belief. There is for example this tale of a girl, which is not very favoured by her stepmother, as usual , and one day she fell into a well and woke up in some kin of a parallel world where she met Frau Holle. That girl had to work for her for some time and was rewarded with alot of gold. She got back into the real world and her stepmother, that was really greedy, wanted her german (no pun intended ) daughter to fall into that well. She did it, woke up at Frau Holle's, had to work but she was too lazy, so she got back with a bunch of coal (I think so). After that event, the stepmother prefered her stepdaughter.
To cut a long story short: Frau Holle is related to the Nordic/Germanic underworld goddess Hel, that, as far as I remember, was also able to revive people and was not, like the Christian devil, only evil for there is no Heaven for the common people.

Cool, this story is really like one from my region, I heard a lot about frau Holle, do you know about her aspect, I mean her body and face as queen Hel is rather ugly and decaying and don't know if frau Holle mixed up also with Huldra figure that is quite beautiful (save concealing a rotten back as Otyg also said
I wonder also if Otyg's lyrics fairytale figures were taken from Swedish folklore or all scandinavian area, I mean for example if Draug, Varulv, Huldra, Gygra and all other fairy creatures in Otyg's lyrics are all present in Swedish folklore or Mr V. had to refer sometimes to Norwegian/Danish folklore because it lacked in his county's lore (as I think for moonlight's men in Vintersorg's lyric which I didn't find elsewhere, maybe he invented it)

 

[Thidrek]

Cool, this story is really like one from my region, I heard a lot about frau Holle, do you know about her aspect, I mean her body and face as queen Hel is rather ugly and decaying and don't know if frau Holle mixed up also with Huldra figure that is quite beautiful (save concealing a rotten back as Otyg also said
I wonder also if Otyg's lyrics fairytale figures were taken from Swedish folklore or all scandinavian area, I mean for example if Draug, Varulv, Huldra, Gygra and all other fairy creatures in Otyg's lyrics are all present in Swedish folklore or Mr V. had to refer sometimes to Norwegian/Danish folklore because it lacked in his county's lore (as I think for moonlight's men in Vintersorg's lyric which I didn't find elsewhere, maybe he invented it)

Frau Holle is described as a woman with long teeth, so she is not very pretty but she also had abilities similar to those of Frigg(a)/Frija/Freia. In some regions she even is a snow goddess. In the fairy tale the stepdaughter had to shake out pillows which caused snow. It is said that Frau Holle brings snow to the earth by shaking out her pillows. The more snow, the more industrious people have been during the year.

Other names for Frau Holle are Perchta/Berchta (related to the English word "bright") and Hulda (maybe related to Huldra???).


And I dont think that there is any original only Swedish folk-lore since Norway and Denmark are part of the same culture area and similar motifs reoccur over and over again in different robes. I don't really know it but I think so cause it's quite natural.

 

[Laila Lumberjack]

Many times Holda is also described as a beautiful goddess. In scandinavian countries it is the deathgoddes Hel that is worshipped,but here in the more south german countries we have Holda. Later in christian times, there has been stories made up about her eating children and being a very ugly witch. Just like Wodan, she's leader of the wild hunt, but being a death goddess she's also got alot to do with fertility. With her, the unborn children and the children who died soon after their birth 'live'. They have a pieceful existence for she is by no means an evil witch and she takes good care of them.
When the unborn children's souls go to their mother, their arise out of Holda's well. It is also said that waterbirds like storks pick them out of the well and bring the child to their family.