2ch Dual Rec Owners: FX Loop Controls?

[wishtheend]

I've read the manual over a few times, and I think I'm a bit confused by the controls of the FX loop. I'm playing higain, and run a Boss TU-2 -> MXR 10-band EQ -> ISP Decimator -> Boss RV-3 -> Boss DD-7 in that order and think I might not be running everything right.

Do you guys set both controls (both send and return levels) to 100%? I'm more use to my 6505 loop, and think the level controls are just throwing me off. Just wanted to see if someone can explain it simply, or tell me how they run it or what will yield the best results.

Right now I have return set to 100% since I'm not wanting to "blend" the loop with the non-fx sound, but should the send be maxed too? Just not sure if the send level would be unity gain at maxed, or if that would be too hot of a signal.

Cheers!

 

[Fvlt]

Right now I have return set to 100% since I'm not wanting to "blend" the loop with the non-fx sound, but should the send be maxed too? Just not sure if the send level would be unity gain at maxed, or if that would be too hot of a signal.

Cheers!

What you're calling the return is the 'Mix' knob. It's a parallel loop, and the mix is like a fader that lets you fade back and forth between the dry signal and wet signal. If you want everything going through your effects chain then set it to 100% wet. Just be advised that in a Recto loop there is always a small amount of dry signal going through, even when set to 100% wet. It's why it's common to mod them to serial loops (see issues with latency below).

The send level affects how hot the signal is that's being sent into your effects. The idea is to set the send reasonably hot, but not so hot that you're overdriving your effects chain.

If you're finding that your sound is kind of dead and/or muffled, you'll probably find that most of those pedals will suck a fair amount of dynamics out of your sound. They're instrument level effects and simply not meant to work with the amount of signal present in an effects loop.

There's also some issues with phasing when using Boss delays/reverbs in a parallel effects loop. The issue is that they convert the signal from analog to digital, then back to analog. This causes a slight latency, which is then blended back into the dry signal slightly out of phase.... which is another reason it's common to convert them to a serial loop.

The idea behind the parallel loop is that you're supposed to run time based effects in it (delay/reverb). It was meant to preserve your dry signal in a day and age when A/D/A conversion was rudimentary and would degrade your signal by eliminating the need to convert any of your dry sound to digital. The idea is to run the delay/verb in dry-mute mode, so it's outputting repeats only and no dry signal. The loop then runs the unprocessed dry signal in parallel with the processed (repeat only) wet signal, which you then blend to taste using your amp's "Mix" knob.

 

[wishtheend]

^Thanks! That's pretty much how I read it, and I figured the FX send is definitely a line level and not an instrument level. I guess for staging purposes, is there any way to check the output signal (maybe running into a DAW) to set it to a particular db level that would be more in line with instrument level signal, rather than line level?

I get how it would be best to run the delay/verbs in 100% wet and then use the loop controls to blend it into the amp, but that won't work at all for the EQ and decimator which I want 100% of the loop to go through.

Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[Fvlt]

^Thanks! That's pretty much how I read it, and I figured the FX send is definitely a line level and not an instrument level. I guess for staging purposes, is there any way to check the output signal (maybe running into a DAW) to set it to a particular db level that would be more in line with instrument level signal, rather than line level?

I get how it would be best to run the delay/verbs in 100% wet and then use the loop controls to blend it into the amp, but that won't work at all for the EQ and decimator which I want 100% of the loop to go through.

Thanks again for the feedback.

I'm not that up on what's possible in DAW and all that stuff. Just learning the basics of it.

I don't know the exact physics of it, but the way I understand it turning down a line level signal (+10v) will still produce a line level signal (+10v) and not an instrument level signal (-4v), which can/will cause impedance mismatches between what the loop is (+10v), what the pedals expect to see (-4v), then what the pedals are (-4v) and what the loop return expects to see (+10v).

What you can try is reducing the send level to a point where it's not driving your pedals so hard... they won't necessarily distort... sometimes they just compress the shit out of everything. Next, you need to ramp up the master output knob to compensate for the reduced signal in the loop. It's not ideal, and the results may not be to your satisfaction, but it costs nothing but time to try.

My suggestion would be to run the tuner and gate out front as it's two less pedals that aren't meant for use in a loop. The EQ you're kind of stuck with unless you can figure out a way to achieve similar results using the amp's own EQ (this is what I did, so I sold my EQ years ago).

 

[462studio]

I usually set my loop at 50% and I wouldn't run anything other than a Hush Super C or an EQ in the loop of my DR.

If you want to run delays, etc, that sort of thing, I'd look into having the loop modified.

 

[wishtheend]

Yeah, I've been keeping the send at noon (50%) but I'm thinking the fx loop mod is going to be best. The Decimator needs to be in the loop since I really want the gate on the actual preamp signal, and not just gating the direct guitar. I know Voodoo and FJA offer this mod, but anyone having any tips on where to get the schemetics/plans for it?

Thanks again for all the responses.

 

[462studio]

I can't vouch for the accuracy of this stuff, but I found this:

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9703