2nd New Burzum album in the space of a year

[ratsapprentice]

which, lets be honest is pretty easy considering how shit the recording quality generally is!
At first it was lack of funds/knowledge, then it was an artistic statement and now it's called being lazy.

Not that i don't like black metal, but i don't see why good recording and atmosphere have to be mutually exclusive

They don't, but what would Dimmu Borgir be without top quality professional engineering?
It suits some bands. Particularly those that employ melodic tremolo picking a lot. Those sorts of riffs sound better to me when they are more obscured.

Also afaik the idea that this style of production was born out of amateurism is a bit of a fallacy......Just listen to "Soulside journey" then "A blaze in the northern sky"

 

[Virgil.]

I agree w/ John C. I too don't understand why atmosphere and recording quality have to be one or the other and you can't have both. Granted it's not black metal, but look at Devin Townsend... his albums sound huge and have a shit load of ambiance and atmosphere, but the production is always great.

@ratsapprentice: thanks for the links but I still don't think his songs are good, at all. I respect the fact and understand that others like him and have their own tastes, but it's still my opinion that he wouldn't be nearly as famous as he/Burzum is today if he wasn't a murderer. People like liking hype.

 

[ratsapprentice]

What makes you think that many people like him though?
I'd say that there are many, many more people who know of him, than people who actually enjoy his music.
I'll take your point though, that a lot of people wouldn't have found black metal in general if it weren't for him/his actions.
But I think most people would agree that his musical output (particularly Filosofem and HLTO) is essential, with many going so far as to say those two albums are THE pinnacle of black metal.

 

[Full_Tilt]

Well out of all the Black Metal bands that started emerging out of Norway in the very early 90's Burzum was one of the least favs of mine but going on to the whole production side I really dont mind the low tech apparent demo quality of these early bands as the more heavy production probably wouldnt benefit the lack of palm muting which was typical in those examples .
I used to play in a couple of black metal projects between 91 -97 and I found that EQ and mix to be a really important aspect of the style but also it was a peice of piss to achieve [if you like that kind of thing] but as the 90's progressed people started to detune step by step , add extra orchestration ,pay more attention to drum detail, palm mutes stronger rythm crept back in and so on ,pretty soon guy's like Dimmu needed a better production to make it all work but its not really anything like the black metal it started out as .
TBH I always prefered the 80's production of B.M Bathory & Sodom etc before twats from Norway start making up rules on how to be "Kvlt"

 

[R-Stuur]

which, lets be honest is pretty easy considering how shit the recording quality generally is!
At first it was lack of funds/knowledge, then it was an artistic statement and now it's called being lazy.

Not that i don't like black metal, but i don't see why good recording and atmosphere have to be mutually exclusive

I was just stating MY priorities when it comes to this style, the style of production suits some bands. What would Filosofem been like without that guitar sound? It's instant recognisable....

 

[ratsapprentice]

TBH I always prefered the 80's production of B.M Bathory & Sodom etc before twats from Norway start making up rules on how to be "Kvlt"

You may prefer the production of Bathory and Sodom, but they are so different from "second wave" black metal that its silly even comparing them imo.

And +1 to R-Stuur, it's the same as with any genre/band, whatever fucking works!

 

[kvoid]

Well out of all the Black Metal bands that started emerging out of Norway in the very early 90's Burzum was one of the least favs of mine but going on to the whole production side I really dont mind the low tech apparent demo quality of these early bands as the more heavy production probably wouldnt benefit the lack of palm muting which was typical in those examples .
I used to play in a couple of black metal projects between 91 -97 and I found that EQ and mix to be a really important aspect of the style but also it was a peice of piss to achieve [if you like that kind of thing] but as the 90's progressed people started to detune step by step , add extra orchestration ,pay more attention to drum detail, palm mutes stronger rythm crept back in and so on ,pretty soon guy's like Dimmu needed a better production to make it all work but its not really anything like the black metal it started out as .
TBH I always prefered the 80's production of B.M Bathory & Sodom etc before twats from Norway start making up rules on how to be "Kvlt"

I fully agree. I can't imagine Call from the Grave or Fine Day to Die sounding better with modern production.

Then again I don't really like the music that usually works well with modern production (percussive, over-detailed, detuned).

Burzum is a legend regardless of his actions. I couldn't care less about his actions or his politics/ideology (imho he's quite a typical sheltered idiot). I don't expect fans of brutal technical DM or any moderncore to understand it. I don't understand the music they like either.

 

[tarbh666]

I don't expect fans of brutal technical DM or any moderncore to understand it. I don't understand the music they like either.

I agree with everything you say bar this statement, I think you are talking a load of bollocks here. I love both technical DM and Black metal. Production in no way influences what I like, it's all about THE SONGS. If the songs suck it doesn't matter a fuck if it was recorded in a shed or a world class studio with *insert big name producer*. Good songs will always shine through regardless of production, technique etc... not "if you like this, you won't like that" bullshit. I fucking hate this "elitist" attitude that ONLY stems in metal music.
Can't wait for the new Burzum, thought Belus was a great return. HLTO and Filosfem are essential Black Metal albums. Up there with De Mysteriis and In the Nightside Eclipse. Modern black metal just doesn't have the same atmosphere and sincerity that the original first/second wave bands had.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd agree with what you just wrote, except:

-There is still a fair bit of sincere black metal being made, it's just there is a fuckload more generic black metal being made for the sake of it.
- And that elitism only occurs within metal, it's simply not the case at all.
Classical music is full of it, as are most underground forms of popular music.
Some genre's inherrantly have more, but let's not descend into a pissing contest.

I'm fine listening to Beneath the Massacre one minute then Ondskapt the next, not every BM fan is stuck in the past.

 

[kvoid]

I agree with everything you say bar this statement, I think you are talking a load of bollocks here. I love both technical DM and Black metal. Production in no way influences what I like, it's all about THE SONGS. If the songs suck it doesn't matter a fuck if it was recorded in a shed or a world class studio with *insert big name producer*. Good songs will always shine through regardless of production, technique etc... not "if you like this, you won't like that" bullshit. I fucking hate this "elitist" attitude that ONLY stems in metal music.
Can't wait for the new Burzum, thought Belus was a great return. HLTO and Filosfem are essential Black Metal albums. Up there with De Mysteriis and In the Nightside Eclipse. Modern black metal just doesn't have the same atmosphere and sincerity that the original first/second wave bands had.

Well just because you love both Technical DM and BM I (pay attention to the I in this case, as well as in my sentence you quoted) cannot be left unaffected by the former??

I didn't like Gorguts, Atheist and Cynic back then. I still don't like Deeds of Flesh right now. It doesn't do anything to me but disorient me. Considering its recently scientifically proven that listening to music you like triggers the release of dopamine, I can conclude I'm wired to be unmoved by complexity. There's many I'm sure that are the very opposite, and certainly, there is no shortage of that kind of music out there for their (and your) enjoyment. I can still appreciate the playing skill/showmanship/production/tempo, but that's purely analytical for me. Kind of like writing an essay in art history about some painting that looks great but does nothing for you. None of that rush and feeling someone gets when they're listening to stuff that blows them away.

Relax, "not understanding/not liking" is not "it should be fed to the pigs and left to die", but for most in Metal, it certainly is

 

[xTomx]

Hasn't done anything of interest since he was in Mayhem.


Oh, and he's a murdering, racist piece of shit.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Hasn't done anything of interest since he was in Mayhem.


Oh, and he's a murdering, racist piece of shit.

Congratulations.

 

[Full_Tilt]

You may prefer the production of Bathory and Sodom, but they are so different from "second wave" black metal that its silly even comparing them imo.

It may seem that way to you but I remember bands like Emperor bridging the gap .

 

[NicholasDWolfwood]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fallen/dp/B004KVY5QU/ref=sr_shvl_album_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1296061344&sr=301-1 Some samples...

Again, the drums sound programmed... I'm not sure why he maintains he actually played on Belus and Fallen...

Drums aren't programmed, they're recorded segments and then looped. To my ears they sound nothing like a programmed drum sound.

Fallen is a good album, Belus Pt 2 really but more focus on clean vocals.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Drums aren't programmed, they're recorded segments and then looped. To my ears they sound nothing like a programmed drum sound.

Fallen is a good album, Belus Pt 2 really but more focus on clean vocals.

That makes sense, I had always thought they sounded too tight for someone who isn't really a "proper" drummer. But they have never sounded programmed. I mean even if they were programmed back in the day, how fucking hard would it have been to make them sound as good as they do?

Oh yeah, did you get the album from amazon?

It may seem that way to you but I remember bands like Emperor bridging the gap .

Emperor are hardly the prototypical norwegian black metal band though are they?

 

[tarbh666]

Emperor are hardly the prototypical norwegian black metal band though are they?

I'd say they would be. By far, Emperor were the most talented anyway. I think Immortal's Pure Holocaust deserves a mention too, relentless album.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Meh, never really got into emperor myself. Good call on Pure Holocaust though...
Between Unsilent Storms and the star wars riff in the title track, it's a fucking great record, their image belies their talent.....

 

[Full_Tilt]

That makes sense, I had always thought they sounded too tight for someone who isn't really a "proper" drummer. But they have never sounded programmed. I mean even if they were programmed back in the day, how fucking hard would it have been to make them sound as good as they do?

Oh yeah, did you get the album from amazon?



Emperor are hardly the prototypical norwegian black metal band though are they?

No I suppose theyre not .

 

[NicholasDWolfwood]

That makes sense, I had always thought they sounded too tight for someone who isn't really a "proper" drummer. But they have never sounded programmed. I mean even if they were programmed back in the day, how fucking hard would it have been to make them sound as good as they do?

Oh yeah, did you get the album from amazon?



Emperor are hardly the prototypical norwegian black metal band though are they?

Drums were never programmed, iirc you can hear varg go out of time very clearly at a few spots on burzum and det som engang var. I got the 128 rip until my copy arrives from amazon in march.

 

[R-Stuur]

Drums aren't programmed, they're recorded segments and then looped. To my ears they sound nothing like a programmed drum sound.

How about that cymbal in the left speaker that always sounds the same and the closed hihat sound. Cymbals really gave it away... my money is on Ezdrummer with the snare being played for real.

I mean, seriously dude, listen to Vanvidd and tell me thats not programmed with segments of real playing... the real drums kick in on 2:18 for a bit