Glenn Fricker
Very Metal &Very Bad News
Hey Jeff, you can mail one up to me... I'll put it up against a Great River, API, & a Dual 72... 
$5 mic pre vs. $1500 mic pre... can you hear the difference?
- Thread starter Exocaster
- Start date
Jarkko Mattheiszen
The FU guy.
devouredremains
Matt Van Daele
WTF are you on about?!
I like the $5 preamp! I did not say it was bad!
I just finished recommending the SC-1 which is an op-amp transformerless design. Extremely transparent. I take it you have never heard or "haven't heard" this pre or the FMR RNP it gets compared to? I have nothing against clean / sterile / pristine preamps and never once said I did. With that said you know just as well as I do how pleasing harmonic distortion can be used in the right places. And you also know as well as I do that if you send anything through a circuit whether it's audio or data it won't be the same when it comes out the other end. "Transparent..."
And what I was saying about large studios not using the $5 preamps all over the place was not to discount the preamp but help people not as knowledgeable to realize that this is not the holy grail because simply, it is not. And for what it's worth some people don't mind paying for the durability of a professionally made box.
I also never said anything about cost relating directly to sound quality. I have everything from the cheapest ART preamp to others that idiotic gearslutz get their panties wet over and I find use for them all. I have gotten good and bad sounds out of everything I've owned starting at my first 4-track cassette machine.
I do respect the fact that you are very knowledgeable with circuitry and you are a math whiz or whatever but you should know that I've been doing this for a long time as well. I was just recommending another clean/cheap pre and making a point that building your own audio equipment is not the greatest way to go about saving costs. It could be a positive side effect but not the only reason. It's like playing an instrument just to get girls and nothing else.
Personal preference, subjectivity, differences in how ears/brains perceive sound...No need to be a circuit cop issuing e-beatings for differences of opinions. This is the sneap forum
Hey Jeff, you can mail one up to me... I'll put it up against a Great River, API, & a Dual 72...
Sure, but you won't hear it...
Again, I'm considering doing these for people when I have time, and I'm very likely to be spending a bit of time redoing some of elephant-audio's gear with these.
Jeff
Go right ahead, I seem to find my quotes all over the place these days. Hell, someone sent me a link to the traffic-cop-with-a-rocket-launcher paragraph last week, I've just learned to get used to it.
The problem I had was with the direct inaccuracy of your statement and the horrible argument you made. Thought that one was clear - just because studios use something doesn't make it good.
I have nothing against clean / sterile / pristine preamps and never once said I did. With that said you know just as well as I do how pleasing harmonic distortion can be used in the right places. And you also know as well as I do that if you send anything through a circuit whether it's audio or data it won't be the same when it comes out the other end. "Transparent..."
I wasn't bashing you for not liking transparent stuff or op-amps... I was saying that the famous circuits have their own character and they aren't chosen because they don't change the signal much. This was against your statement that if they were so good studios would have them. You're missing my point.
And as for transparent, I know it's not identical but you know as well as I do that there's a point where the differences are so small that they're inaudible.
I'd say that if you're looking for a circuit you won't be hearing very much, this is the holy grail. Its purpose was highlighted already and the results speak for themselves. What's more, you didn't put that point across very well, and one person's holy grail of warm, 'classic', vintage sound is far different from someone else's 'transparent', and anyone in the previous category who actually read this stuff would be very clear on that.
[/quote=devouredremains]-if these cheap DIY pres were as good as $1500+ preamps-[/quote]
You missed the results of the poll, which should really speak for themselves, referred to preamps by price and not name or type, and incorrectly assumed that op-amp circuits like this are not already in studios and boutique boxes. That was the problem.
My problem wasn't with the recommendation - I made that same recommendation to a few people (mainly the cheap one, I'll admit) before I tried this one.
Personal preference, subjectivity, differences in how ears/brains perceive sound...No need to be a circuit cop issuing e-beatings for differences of opinions. This is the sneap forum
This wasn't an attempt at an e-beating for a difference of opinion, I was annoyed at a very poor argument and a literally incorrect statement. Don't get me wrong on that one. If I were trying to attack you directly it would have come across much more directly - ask Brakk how that one goes.
Jeff
Glenn Fricker
Very Metal &Very Bad News
Actually dude, that wasn't a taunt.... I'd be very interested in evaluating one of these.... maybe in purchasing a few if you build them. I certainly understand the concept of a steady DC power supply & a good op amp. Hell, the API's are op-amp based & they're my current favorite.
-0z-
Yeah, I'm taking notes about who will want what. They'll be limited-quantity at first, because I only have two hands and apparently I'm supposed to start sleeping regularly because if I keep going a week without it the dementia will get worse. I'll keep you posted, though.
Jeff
Jeff
Glenn Fricker
Very Metal &Very Bad News
JB, have you thought of any quick and cheap way besides perf board to mount the pre? I've been thinking about making a small DI style box made of some 1/8" wood, give it a quick stain etc. then maybe have a rear loading compartment to hold the 9v's.
Taking your word on how transparent they are, I'd really like to do some tests on battery life. I'm assuming it acts like an active pickup system on a guitar/bass would; a current only flows when a cable is inserted?
Taking your word on how transparent they are, I'd really like to do some tests on battery life. I'm assuming it acts like an active pickup system on a guitar/bass would; a current only flows when a cable is inserted?
I keep fucking saying that! Nobody listens!
"Jeff, if you don't sleep you'll go ins- erm, more insane..."
"Long-term insomnia leads to demen- well, more dementia, in this case..."
"Sleep is how the mind stays organiz- well, at least that answers *that* question..."
"Mr. Broll... you say you've had an imaginary cat for over two years, when you get bored little cartoon badgers fly around the room and tell you to become Lord of the Riverdance, and at any given point in time at least 70% of what you see appears to be a cartoon of some sort?
...
Have you been sleeping lately?"
"Goddamnit, Jeff, I'm tired, stop biting me and at least pretend to be asleep..."
I swear, some people...
Jeff
"Jeff, if you don't sleep you'll go ins- erm, more insane..."
"Long-term insomnia leads to demen- well, more dementia, in this case..."
"Sleep is how the mind stays organiz- well, at least that answers *that* question..."
"Mr. Broll... you say you've had an imaginary cat for over two years, when you get bored little cartoon badgers fly around the room and tell you to become Lord of the Riverdance, and at any given point in time at least 70% of what you see appears to be a cartoon of some sort?
...
Have you been sleeping lately?"
"Goddamnit, Jeff, I'm tired, stop biting me and at least pretend to be asleep..."
I swear, some people...
Jeff
Just mount the perfboard inside whatever enclosure you'd like - Radio Shack has cheap enclosures, if I were going with wood I'd have a few of them in there just to make things simpler.
That's one way you could set it up. Personally, I'd have an on/off switch, because that sort of thing isn't as simple with TRS jacks. What happens in the active systems is that the 'ring' of a plug (which on a normal mono cable isn't separated from ground) closes the circuit and allows the battery to start cranking power out, but with XLR you're assumed to have a stereo signal so it wouldn't be exactly the same (neither side is ground by default) so I'd just have it set up with a switch. I don't even like having my active instrument electronics set up like that, though, so you can work that out if you want.
Jeff
mikko/boogie
Tortellini Twister
This is totally mindblowing stuff! Been on the lookout for mic pres lately as they are the weakest link in my humble home studio for the time being. I think I'll be holding my horses a tad longer and see what another shoot out brings forward. I must say I'm really surprised that the power supply can have such an impact on the sound. Never thought of it.
How can you go wrong, apart from feeding too much signal into it?
Anything else I should be looking out for?
How can you go wrong, apart from feeding too much signal into it?
Anything else I should be looking out for?
Just trying to put too much in, get too much out, or fuck with the power supply. Haven't found any other real problems.
Power supplies are problems because most home wiring (and a lot of venues and other 'professional' setups) has tons of nasty shit that leads to noise; batteries, on the other hand, don't. This is why people pay tons for line conditioners and whatnot.
Jeff
Power supplies are problems because most home wiring (and a lot of venues and other 'professional' setups) has tons of nasty shit that leads to noise; batteries, on the other hand, don't. This is why people pay tons for line conditioners and whatnot.
Jeff
Nice to see you know what your talking about, i hate when people argue with me about audio and have to pull out my degree and tell them to shut up.
So what's the point of having a decent pre when everyone destroys their signal path with too many plugins and compression?
Edit: if i were to build my own pre it would be class A discrete w/transformer coupled outs, but i don't have the money to proto right now.
fuck, man...i might have to hit up TI for the 5 freebie chips, then use 1 for a test run, and use the others to build a 4-channel unit
it's been my goal lately to expand my knowledge of electronics/circuitry and shit, and it seems like this might be a good project for doing just that
it's been my goal lately to expand my knowledge of electronics/circuitry and shit, and it seems like this might be a good project for doing just that
mikko/boogie
Tortellini Twister
Better understanding of a circuit, possibly a bit of coin... and having a slightly less destroyed signal - the way I see it, the better the source is the less tinkering it needs.
Jeff
mikko/boogie
Tortellini Twister
Reading OzNimbus' explanation of the importance of getting the impedance right in the brilliant "Acoustic Drums for Metal: A Guide"-thread, I came to wonder what impendance the diy pre has, and if it's possible to make a switchable one fairly easy?
I don't remember off the top of my head, but it's high enough to be friendly to anything - and any pre that doesn't have optimal impedance can just be shoved into a decent DI first and then put into the preamp.
Making *anything* switchable is trivial. Go to Radio Shack and buy a DPDT On/On for three dollars. You get a switch with the lever on top and six lugs on the bottom, arranged thusly:
1 2
3 4
5 6
3 and 4 are the lugs that are always connected to something - in one position 1 connects to 3 and 2 connects to 4, and in the other position 5 connects to 3 and 6 connects to 4. From this we can see that we'll be connecting the source to 3 and 4 - I hereby decree that we're connecting 'pin 2' to 3 and 'pin 3' to 4. All grounds should already be connected... safe electronics, kiddos. We now solder 5 and 6 straight to pins 2 and 3 of the output jack, so in the case when 3 connects to 5 and 4 connects to 6 we're going straight to the output jack. Now we solder 1 to 'pin 2' (where pin 2 would have been connected if it had a proper XLR jack of its own) of the preamp's input and 2 to 'pin 3', so when 3 connects to 1 and 2 connects to 4 we've matched pins 2 and 3 of the input to the appropriate pins on the preamp.
This is how you can pretty much switch anything - connect one 'side' (like 1 and 2) straight to output and the other 'side' to the the effect/preamp/light show/whatever. Of course, if you need three inputs and outputs, you need a 3PDT.
In case you were wonderingthe name comes from xPyT, where x is the number of 'poles' (lugs; a 3PDT would be configured
1 2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9
so you have another pair of connections) and y is the number of 'throws' (or positions where you can flip the switch); you can do a hell of a lot with DPDTs, so get creative.
Jeff
Making *anything* switchable is trivial. Go to Radio Shack and buy a DPDT On/On for three dollars. You get a switch with the lever on top and six lugs on the bottom, arranged thusly:
1 2
3 4
5 6
3 and 4 are the lugs that are always connected to something - in one position 1 connects to 3 and 2 connects to 4, and in the other position 5 connects to 3 and 6 connects to 4. From this we can see that we'll be connecting the source to 3 and 4 - I hereby decree that we're connecting 'pin 2' to 3 and 'pin 3' to 4. All grounds should already be connected... safe electronics, kiddos. We now solder 5 and 6 straight to pins 2 and 3 of the output jack, so in the case when 3 connects to 5 and 4 connects to 6 we're going straight to the output jack. Now we solder 1 to 'pin 2' (where pin 2 would have been connected if it had a proper XLR jack of its own) of the preamp's input and 2 to 'pin 3', so when 3 connects to 1 and 2 connects to 4 we've matched pins 2 and 3 of the input to the appropriate pins on the preamp.
This is how you can pretty much switch anything - connect one 'side' (like 1 and 2) straight to output and the other 'side' to the the effect/preamp/light show/whatever. Of course, if you need three inputs and outputs, you need a 3PDT.
In case you were wonderingthe name comes from xPyT, where x is the number of 'poles' (lugs; a 3PDT would be configured
1 2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9
so you have another pair of connections) and y is the number of 'throws' (or positions where you can flip the switch); you can do a hell of a lot with DPDTs, so get creative.
Jeff
Ice Man
Member
Well, aside from the whole cost effectiveness debate, I like how the converters used wasn't mentioned. Your AD/DA conversation will play a HUGE roll in how preamps, especially variances in preamps, will translate. Plus, as others have stated, how preamps influence a mix. Track a whole mix through each one and then see. That, or send all three through high-quality conversion and I'm pretty sure the results would be much less hazy.
