A/B vs. X/Y

[Polpotkin]

Hi!
Judging from pictures and forums threads, most people seem to use A/B placement for drum overheads, often combined with one center or more mics. Is there any particular reason for this or is it just a matter of taste?
I find it "smarter" to go with X/Y because of the phase/mono-compatibility.

What placement do you use, and why?

 

[Andy Sneap]

mono smono I say, what about the stereo compatibility? Too much snare for me in the ohs doing x/y and not enough separation

 

[James Murphy]

^^+1^^

 

[Nebulous]

I find it quite funny that in this day and age of surround sound we are still told (by various sources) to "keep mono in mind". Is it really all that important when we're looking at 7.1 being the current standard and 10.2 forging it's way into the industry?

 

[Ronnie_Rocker]

Too much snare for me in the ohs doing x/y and not enough separation

thats true!

 

[egan.]

I find it quite funny that in this day and age of surround sound we are still told (by various sources) to "keep mono in mind". Is it really all that important when we're looking at 7.1 being the current standard and 10.2 forging it's way into the industry?

I think it' still pertinent in that mono compatiblility can tell you quite a bit about phase issues that are still pertinent in stereo. I wouldn't make micing choices based on mono but it certainly helps me check phase.
While your point is well taken about surround, how many records are really being released in surround vs. stereo? Not many....none that have ever been discussed in this forum that I can remember ( except a couple of live DVD's). Point being 7.1 is not even close to being the "standard" for music.

 

[Andy Sneap]

just mixing kreator in 5.1 right now

 

[metalkingdom]

mono smono I say, what about the stereo compatibility? Too much snare for me in the ohs doing x/y and not enough separation

+2

I recently read somewhere that DVD audio isn't faring so well. As far as keeping "mono in mind", I think that it's very important to A/B stereo and mono during mixing.

 

[Gomez]

I like M/S a lot.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

I was a die hard XY kind of guy until James pointed out the error of my ways. XY is great for jazz & country. For metal, spaced pairs are the way to go.

BTW, it's 2006. I'm sure the three people in the world still playing stuff on a mono system won't make too much of a dent in the complaints department.

-0z-

 

[theblackmoon]

I have seen people micing every cymbal individually, very close micing, with no spaced OH at all. Does anyone here tried that one yet?

Ps: Maybe it should work in a not so great kit with triggers?

 

[Polpotkin]

Hey, I just presented my theory about x/y placement. I usually don't do that myself, except for some indie pop bands i have recorded.

Regarding individually miked cymbals (+ambience), I know some guys who do that with great results.

Andy>> Are the cymbals on Masterplans 'Aeronautics', by any chance individually miked? They sound so "in place" and clean.

 

[Elof]

Sometimes I close mic cymbals + having one or two ambience mics. It really gives me control over the kit but it´s more difficult to make it sound "real" IMO. Most often it´s not worth it for me, so I put a spaced pair for OH´s and listen, move them around and if I can´t get the image right I put up additional individual mics, usually end up with one on the ride.

 

[SteelRat]

With the capability of both satellite and terrestrial radio going completely digital with HD transmitters broadcasting in 5.1...it's a good possibilty that record companies will begin to push the DVA formats over the next couple of years...and CD's will begin fading after that, kind of like LP's...but will probably fade faster since LP's actually sounded pretty good...

Then we'll all have to get the 5.1 remixes of all our old albums, just so our collections will be complete.

Dammit!

 

[Glenn Fricker]

I'm not so sure. The digital cat is out of the bag. Consumers are buying iPods, not hi-end playback hardware. At this point, it doesn't matter what kind of fairy dust the record companies sprinkle on new formats, they'll wind up going the route of DAT & Divx (the hardware that came out 3 years ago, NOT the codec.)


From a consumer's standpoint, what makes more sense? Buy some expensive new playback hardware that nobody can guarantee will be around next year, with expensive new discs that go in it, and spend thousands replacing your record collection?
Or...

...A nifty little portable device that carries your entire record collection in the palm of your hand. ...with still free music if you know where to look.



The record companies screwed themselves when they convinced the public to replace thier vynil with digital. Sure, the short term gain was astronomical, but there was no long term vision. Now, they're paying the price for it.

-0z-

 

[Ermz]

I have seen people micing every cymbal individually, very close micing, with no spaced OH at all. Does anyone here tried that one yet?

Ps: Maybe it should work in a not so great kit with triggers?

I did that once. Gives you massive seperation. You can control the stereo image much as you would using a sample bank like DFH. It sounded strange though. I don't know what it was but my results with overheads were just more... natural I guess.

If you place your overhead mics right, you really shouldn't have too many issues with seperation anyway.

 

[metalkingdom]

BTW, it's 2006. I'm sure the three people in the world still playing stuff on a mono system won't make too much of a dent in the complaints department. -0z-

There are still lots of mono TV's out there, as well as AM radio (which is the only radio that I listen to). Besides, hitting the "mono" switch while mixing will more than likely reveal some nasty shit going on that you're not hearing in stereo. Making a frequency-dense song sound good in mono is not an easy thing to pull off.

but will probably fade faster since LP's actually sounded pretty good...

They did? Sounded cool, sure. But sounded good...? If you don't like feeling the low end or think various random crackles and pops make for good sonic representation, then ok.

 

[egan.]

The record companies screwed themselves when they convinced the public to replace thier vynil with digital. Sure, the short term gain was astronomical, but there was no long term vision. Now, they're paying the price for it.
-0z-

It seems silly to call people short sited for not being able to predict the internet revolution (and subsequent MP3 revolution) in the 70's when Phillips developed the Laserdisc or 1982 when the first CD's reached the marketplace. Just think about all of the insane technology changes since then.

 

[ThatGuitarGuy]

There are still lots of mono TV's out there, as well as AM radio (which is the only radio that I listen to). Besides, hitting the "mono" switch while mixing will more than likely reveal some nasty shit going on that you're not hearing in stereo. Making a frequency-dense song sound good in mono is not an easy thing to pull off.



They did? Sounded cool, sure. But sounded good...? If you don't like feeling the low end or think various random crackles and pops make for good sonic representation, then ok.

I don't know about you, but the bass on the records I've checked out seemed pretty darn good. It's like everything else, you have to have a good system to hear the bass...for CD or a Vinyl.

And yes, Vinyls fell so much more alive. You can really hear a lot more than on a CD, but yes there are crackles...thats why you clean your records lol.

I challenge you to listen to a CD on Vinyl back to back not for an arguement, but merely for your own education. It's quite interesting if I do say myself.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

There are still lots of mono TV's out there, as well as AM radio (which is the only radio that I listen to). Besides, hitting the "mono" switch while mixing will more than likely reveal some nasty shit going on that you're not hearing in stereo. Making a frequency-dense song sound good in mono is not an easy thing to pull off.

Don't read into it too much... You're preaching to the choir. I was being a little sarcastic, that's all.