A BLIND SHOOTOUT THAT WILL STUN YOU!

[turtleheadblues]

Again, that's not how science works. That's not how current flows.

The HiFi guys can suck it - I've seen many tests where audiophile quality cables were bested by wire coat hangars in A/B tests (and please do not use that as evidence of stranded vs solid, because it's just not).

If you really want to have some fun go out and buy a bunch of different cables and listen. I have never been one of those guys to look at charts or theories it bores me to death. I play music because I didn't want to be a scientist. I have done this listening test a few times. Its great fun. I ran across a stranded cable last year that smoked the field. They supposedly treat the copper in some fashion that charges the copper or something crazy like that. No question it sounded better than any other cable I tried that day.

I just use my ears and know what I like. I can tell you all the solid core cables I have tried over the years offer a clarity that is undeniable.

 

[ForHerDeadEyes]

@lolzgreg

What strings did you use?
I haven't tried Elixir strings yet, people say they keep their sound a lot longer then uncoated strings.. but they don't sound as "fresh" as uncoated do, from the start..
But.. in combination with a cable that gives a lot clearer sound.. well.. maybe there's a good compromise in it..

 

[Josh Burgess]

Even if there was an obvious difference between different cables, does it really matter? You would either be using more or less treble/presence/bass on your amp to get the tone where you want it. I think there may be subtle differences between cables, but I don't think it's something to really worry about, as we all generally still have room to add or take away presence and adjust treble & bass on our amps... I think small EQ adjusments on the amps for each cable could completely change people's minds about what which recording they prefer...

 

[jangoux]

Yeah, cables do make a difference but it is not about this solid vs. stranded thing. Just buy any higher end cable and it is sure you'll have more clarity. Mogami, Canare, George Ls..Just go out and try. I started buying George Ls around 10 years ago, and some friends where 'WTF' to me spending so much money on cables (it is very expensive in Brazil, like Mogami). On a beautiful rehearsal day, a friend came by to watch it, and he was AMAZED of how cleared the tone was with the George Ls, passing through my whole pedal chain (around 8 pedals at the time) versus the other cheap cable plugged straight on the amp. A few years later, influenced by what i showed 'em, most rock guitarists are using those cables. To make it short, cables do make a differente, just test it and buy whatever you feel helps your tone.

 

[Fama]

Great philosophy. For most people it's the other way around, being very scientific in order to appear more serious, disregarding the actual feeling and sound, forgetting that it's the sensory perception and not the logic behind something which makes a great product.

From what I understand good sounding gear can technically be very inefficient or illogical in theory, but extremely good sounding in practical experience.

This might be offtopic but still, could you describe what you think the tonal difference is between the lava soar and the vovox sonoros?

(the bold being mine, of course)

I do understand your point (particularly the middle paragraph), but there is definitely need for a certain level scientific approach. The problem is placebo.

Of course it's not a problem if you do double blind tests yourself (I think Ermz does). But just switching the cable to your amp and playing, and then switching the second one and comparing them is not very accurate at all.

 

[Mesa4x12er]

I am really just not at all buying this solid core vs stranded core stuff. That's NOT how science works. Solid core cable can have less skin effect compared to stranded, but at audio frequencies skin effect is a non-issue.

Can someone tell me definitively why solid core would make a better cable than stranded wire?

You're right. These dudes drank the kool-aid.

 

[John_C]

Just for the record, I do accept that the lava cables sound great.

I just want to know why.

Also, what passes for science on hi-fi forums is a joke.

 

[slayercannibalsuffohead]

Woah Woah Woah Woah! EVERYTHING IS IRRELEVENT, EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN IS USELESS UNTIL YOU PURCHASE ............................................

http://www.essentialsound.com/esp-power-cord-demonstration-guitar-bass.htm

 

[lolzgreg]

Even if there was an obvious difference between different cables, does it really matter? You would either be using more or less treble/presence/bass on your amp to get the tone where you want it. I think there may be subtle differences between cables, but I don't think it's something to really worry about, as we all generally still have room to add or take away presence and adjust treble & bass on our amps... I think small EQ adjusments on the amps for each cable could completely change people's minds about what which recording they prefer...

If a certain cable has a bad buildup in the midrange, you can't dial that out.

If a certain cable has no low end, you can't dial it in.

It has to do with the signal getting to the first gain stage. If there is "information" missing, you can't bring it back if it was never there in the first place, and getting rid of certain frequencies can only be done if they're really broader. The EQ circuits of our amps can only do so much, and some knobs on some amps start sounding like shit past certain points.

I'm doing more tests today perhaps.

 

[lolzgreg]

(the bold being mine, of course)

I do understand your point (particularly the middle paragraph), but there is definitely need for a certain level scientific approach. The problem is placebo.

Of course it's not a problem if you do double blind tests yourself (I think Ermz does). But just switching the cable to your amp and playing, and then switching the second one and comparing them is not very accurate at all.

Question 1: Do you think I wanted to spend over $1000 recabling my studio, or settle with the older cables I already purchased?

Question 2: If you think the test doesn't show a clear difference in tone, something that couldn't possibly be affected by simply doing a second take unless I were to perhaps switch picks and move my hands six inches, you need to get those ears checked. Just about everyone heard it.

The reason different players sound different playing the same instrument is several variables including: a. the pick they use, b. how hard they pick, c. how hard they fret, d. how they articulate a riff, e. their timing, f. how they pick (at what angle to the string, etc)... these differences would be clear in a test, but I'm going to have to do the "different players playing the same riff shooutout" next, aren't I?

 

[lolzgreg]

Woah Woah Woah Woah! EVERYTHING IS IRRELEVENT, EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN IS USELESS UNTIL YOU PURCHASE ............................................

http://www.essentialsound.com/esp-power-cord-demonstration-guitar-bass.htm

See with the power cord, it's not going to make as much of a difference; there's a few hundred thousand feet of who knows what brand power cable coming from the electric plant and through your walls. HOWEVER, the filtering and regeneration of audio (done by my PSA Power Plant Regenerator) definitely makes a substantial difference. I did A/B reamp tests just changing the power source with the same DIs, phase reversed, and there was an insane amount of info present in the high and low end that wasn't there before. I did this shootout here, but not many people seemed to care

If someone sent me one of those power cords to A/B I would; the test is null and void to me because the microphone position could have easily changed with the way the guy was mangling the amp; I would do this test to a head that was elsewhere (i.e., not on top of the cabinet).

 

[Fama]

Question 1: Do you think I wanted to spend over $1000 recabling my studio, or settle with the older cables I already purchased?

Question 2: If you think the test doesn't show a clear difference in tone, something that couldn't possibly be affected by simply doing a second take unless I were to perhaps switch picks and move my hands six inches, you need to get those ears checked. Just about everyone heard it.

The reason different players sound different playing the same instrument is several variables including: a. the pick they use, b. how hard they pick, c. how hard they fret, d. how they articulate a riff, e. their timing, f. how they pick (at what angle to the string, etc)... these differences would be clear in a test, but I'm going to have to do the "different players playing the same riff shooutout" next, aren't I?

Err...? I wasn't even talking to you, it was aimed at the guy I quoted.

What I ment is the same reason this is a BLIND shootout, not a "Hey guys, do you think this sounds better than that?". And if you read my post a few pages back, I said C definitely sounded worse (and that was before the results were posted). I really don't know what you mean by "if you didn't hear a difference", I never said I didn't.

Was your post really aimed at me? Or did you accidentally quote me or something? I'm a bit puzzled here...

 

[turtleheadblues]

Solid Core does not mean better. I have guys I deal with that prefer a higher cap/ darker tone. I have had customers recording with our Coil cables because they round off the high end in a way they like. It is all about what you like.

I do not think Greg was trying to prove anything. He seems just like me enjoying the fun of experimenting and hearing the difference changing pieces of the puzzle can make. Some guys liked the 3rd clip. Not everyone is after the same thing.

 

[Matt-Steele]

How is it that everything here seems to turn into a war? Why can't we take this shootout for what it is? A demonstration of a few different cables and the difference they make on the final sound. I found it quite interesting. Everything in music is subjective, so a highly conductive cable may not serve the purposes of everyone, but might be that extra push others might be looking for. Who cares? There's no need to argue about what is superior and what isn't. I see it as more choice, or an extra tool that might come in handy.

 

[Fbarre]

HOWEVER, the filtering and regeneration of audio (done by my PSA Power Plant Regenerator) definitely makes a substantial difference. I did A/B reamp tests just changing the power source with the same DIs, phase reversed, and there was an insane amount of info present in the high and low end that wasn't there before. I did this shootout here, but not many people seemed to care

Could you post the link. I would be very interested in hearing the files.

 

[Mesa4x12er]

If a certain cable has a bad buildup in the midrange, you can't dial that out.

If a certain cable has no low end, you can't dial it in.

Are you retarded?

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

^Not sure if you're being serious, but I'm honestly with Greg on that one - IMO the tone controls on an amp are WAY too broad (and affect the entire tone stack, especially in Rectifiers, for example, where the treble determines the response of the other pots) to be able to replicate the subtle differences in cabling (or cab choice, or pickups, or really anything else IMO) just by tweaking them

 

[Mesa4x12er]

^Not sure if you're being serious, but I'm honestly with Greg on that one - IMO the tone controls on an amp are WAY too broad (and affect the entire tone stack, especially in Rectifiers, for example, where the treble determines the response of the other pots) to be able to replicate the subtle differences in cabling (or cab choice, or pickups, or really anything else IMO) just by tweaking them

I was just being an ass but seriously mid buildup? Where exactly does a cable get mid buildup? Best case scenario is it transfers a true to source signal. Worst case scenario you lose some signal which generally would be top end. Where exactly do we introduce a mid buildup or lose all of our lowend?

I have tons of cables from lowend crap to mogami to brand x, brand x etc and I have never heard as much loss as his A to C. I'm not saying dude botched the test but there's something else at play here. Seriously.

But anyway back to the original topic, I don't see how you could possibly get a buildup of anything or lose your lowend due to a functioning cable of any variety, coat hanger or otherwise.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

Yeah, I'm still not sure about this whole cabling thing, as I honestly haven't had a chance to listen to the files, but judging by the responses in here I'm certainly intrigued enough to do some testing of my own!

 

[lolzgreg]

@lolzgreg

What strings did you use?
I haven't tried Elixir strings yet, people say they keep their sound a lot longer then uncoated strings.. but they don't sound as "fresh" as uncoated do, from the start..
But.. in combination with a cable that gives a lot clearer sound.. well.. maybe there's a good compromise in it..

I'm a D'Addario fan. They break the least and sound great in my experience.

Are you retarded?

No, but apparently you're deaf AND retarded.

Did you not hear the cocked wah comment from Ermz? Did nearly everyone here vote for A OR B? Yes. You're more than welcome to question my thread, but like I said, think I wanted to spend a grand on new cable? I wish it sounded worse, and then I could spend that thousand elsewhere.

Err...? I wasn't even talking to you, it was aimed at the guy I quoted.

What I ment is the same reason this is a BLIND shootout, not a "Hey guys, do you think this sounds better than that?". And if you read my post a few pages back, I said C definitely sounded worse (and that was before the results were posted). I really don't know what you mean by "if you didn't hear a difference", I never said I didn't.

Was your post really aimed at me? Or did you accidentally quote me or something? I'm a bit puzzled here...

This is a discussion board; I'm very aware your comment wasn't aimed at me, but I had something to say about it. You said that differences in playing could account for the differences in the tone. That is obviously true, but no where near as much as to the extent it was heard in this test.

Anyhow, for all you geniuses who think that science is more important than using your ears in audio, here's a new thread for you.