I actually asked this question because a lot of people on this board say stuff like "punk bands are shit" and stuff like that, so I was curious if many punk bands don't know theory, which is what a lot of people tell me, then why do they write so many songs with riff changes galore but metal bands will repeat a riff for over a minute sometimes. Look at Blackened by Metallica, it's just a few riffs over and over again. but in a 3 min punk songs you can have like 5 or 6 riff changes. And they have way more songs on their cds than metal bands. I guess Ive just been curious why this is if they don't know as much theory as metal bands.
A Question About Music Theory
- Thread starter Listener1254
- Start date
Episteme
Member
Oh no, not this again. Well I know enough theory to get by my band. I know how to harmonize, I know how to solo and improvise, change keys easily, I know quite alot of scales as well. But the music I write is similar to Opeth, where barely any theory is needed and it's jsut whatever sounds good. I just use the theory to link keys, do a solo, dual guitar harmonies and for arranging. As plffffffft said, I tend to prefer a band that's somewhat in the middle. Not restricting themselves to their knowledge of theory and ending up being very "robotic" sounding.
As for Listener1254, you're just looking at a few metal bands. And I think Metallica tends to go with whatever sounds good to them. Riffs tend to get repeated because they are either verse riffs or choruses or they just seem to fit at the right spot. I don't want to comment on punk bands because they only real punk I listen to is The Sex Pistols, The Ramones and The Clash. They too, repeat riffs over and over again. You also don't need to know musical theory to write riffs that sound good. And for the last time, if you have more songs on a cd doesn't automatically mean that you are good. Poppunk seems to rely on simple non technical riffs, and of course you don't need extreme technique or theory to pull those riffs off. And if you think metal bands tend to repeat riffs over and over again, try listening to Opeth, Decapitated, Cryptopsy, Emperor, Symphony X, Quo Vadis etc Metallica isn't the best example, as good a song Blackened is.
As for Listener1254, you're just looking at a few metal bands. And I think Metallica tends to go with whatever sounds good to them. Riffs tend to get repeated because they are either verse riffs or choruses or they just seem to fit at the right spot. I don't want to comment on punk bands because they only real punk I listen to is The Sex Pistols, The Ramones and The Clash. They too, repeat riffs over and over again. You also don't need to know musical theory to write riffs that sound good. And for the last time, if you have more songs on a cd doesn't automatically mean that you are good. Poppunk seems to rely on simple non technical riffs, and of course you don't need extreme technique or theory to pull those riffs off. And if you think metal bands tend to repeat riffs over and over again, try listening to Opeth, Decapitated, Cryptopsy, Emperor, Symphony X, Quo Vadis etc Metallica isn't the best example, as good a song Blackened is.
genocide roach
DOOOOOOOOOOM
- Aug 18, 2002
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punk is brainless and moronic. if you think metal is the same couple riffs repeated you are sooooo wrong. its quite the opposite! i dont know what metal your thinking of, but metal 99% of the time is not the same couple of riffs repeated. hell, there are some bands that dont even repeat the same riff once! and they do a pretty good job at it too.
~gR~
~gR~
R.I.P.2
just say hi
- Jan 22, 2002
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Listener1254 said:
You clearly cannot grasp that it doesn't matter if a Punk band has a high amount of riffs in a three minute song if the riffs themselves are simple and of a low quality. The same goes with the amount of songs in an album. It's easy to write shit, you know. Quantity doesn't mean anything.
I'm not bothered either way if a band knows theory or not, unless a band is confined due to their knowledge of theory.
Int said:
Well isn't it the same difficulty to make up 5 or 6 power chord changes in a song as it is to make up thrash riffs or death metal riffs or any type of metal riff?
Episteme
Member
Difficulty? o_o I think it's more difficult coming with a riff that fits the song as a whole as opposed coming up with just another power chord change to make the whole song sound more "interesting".
xxChaoticManifestoxx said:
I see, but what do you think of this thread? http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96106&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
Do you think what they say about punk is true about playing punk is easy but coming up with it isn't so easy?
Episteme
Member
I do to some extent agree to what they are saying on that forum. Talent, to me has nothing to do with virtuosic technique on an instrument or a massive knowledge on music theory. It is a debatable subject really.
I'm not saying punk is bad or anything, because I listen to punk(mainly 70s punk). But punk is catchier and I guess happier sounding. I like my music abit abstract, makes me think, thought provoking, awesome technique and heavy. The reason why I don't like the current punk is because it just seems, uninteresting. As alot of people already said, it's personal taste. You like Punk, most of us don't. It's all a matter of personal taste. I don't like to flame people because of their different opinions(unless it's really stupid). So I'd say, instead of debating whether punk or metal is better, try out some really good metal bands. And if you don't like it, don't complain.
I'm not saying punk is bad or anything, because I listen to punk(mainly 70s punk). But punk is catchier and I guess happier sounding. I like my music abit abstract, makes me think, thought provoking, awesome technique and heavy. The reason why I don't like the current punk is because it just seems, uninteresting. As alot of people already said, it's personal taste. You like Punk, most of us don't. It's all a matter of personal taste. I don't like to flame people because of their different opinions(unless it's really stupid). So I'd say, instead of debating whether punk or metal is better, try out some really good metal bands. And if you don't like it, don't complain.
xxChaoticManifestoxx said:I do to some extent agree to what they are saying on that forum. Talent, to me has nothing to do with virtuosic technique on an instrument or a massive knowledge on music theory. It is a debatable subject really.
I'm not saying punk is bad or anything, because I listen to punk(mainly 70s punk). But punk is catchier and I guess happier sounding. I like my music abit abstract, makes me think, thought provoking, awesome technique and heavy. The reason why I don't like the current punk is because it just seems, uninteresting. As alot of people already said, it's personal taste. You like Punk, most of us don't. It's all a matter of personal taste. I don't like to flame people because of their different opinions(unless it's really stupid). So I'd say, instead of debating whether punk or metal is better, try out some really good metal bands. And if you don't like it, don't complain.
yes but many people say punk is so simple to play, but they never try to come up with punk songs, so it may be easy to play but not so easy to come up with. Isn't it a lot harder to write a short catchy song than a long complex one?
Dreamer Deceiver
aka Pimpbot5000
I've been playing guitar for 7 months and I can pull any random "catchy" punk riff out my ass like its nothing, but I have yet to come up with a good metal riff.
as long as the music is good it really doesn't matter whether the songwriter was using theory when he wrote it or not.
Life Sucks
and then you die
I've written punk songs before, when I was into punk more than I am now. It's hard to write good complex punk like Propagandhi, but it is easy to write simple repetitive crap like Weston, Descentdants, Bouncing Souls, or Screeching Weasle. Overall, I think that it is harder to write metal songs.Listener1254 said:
Life Sucks said:
if it's hard to write complex punk like Propagandhi, how come they put 14 songs on their cd, whyile metal bands only put on 8-10 if that is also hard to write.
genocide roach
DOOOOOOOOOOM
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listener1254:
i have to ask, do you like metal? i mean, youre on a metal board so i am assuming you do. if you do, why? i mean, there is obviously somthing you like about it. i think you should elaborate on that a bit so we can understand where you are comin from here
~gR~
i have to ask, do you like metal? i mean, youre on a metal board so i am assuming you do. if you do, why? i mean, there is obviously somthing you like about it. i think you should elaborate on that a bit so we can understand where you are comin from here
~gR~
Neurotic
New Millenium Christ
Listener1254 said:
wtf? most people don't try to come up with punk songs cuz they don't like it duh!, it is that hard to understand? whats up with this shit? always comparing punk with metal, just accept it, punk is really easy to play and write, do you even think that a skilled musician will play punk? fuck no!!
its fine if you like punk, but try to learn anything about music, pick a guitar and learn to play it and you'll realize that punk is just too fucking easy!
btw like i said its fine that you like punk, the drummer of my band loves punk but he his aware of it simplicity, he just loves the whole vibe of the genre. it seems like you're trying to be accepted among us or something, just listen to what you like and thats fine, but don't expect us to start liking punk
Life Sucks
and then you die
Because for the most part they prefer to write shorter songs, as is typical for punk. Many metal bands like to write songs that are longer. And there are also metal bands that have 14 or more songs on a CD.Listener1254 said:
no country for old wainds
Active Member
- Nov 23, 2002
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Uh, it makes no difference to me. I concentrate on the music. If the music's good, I'm impressed, regardless.
Theory has been a big help to me. Especially in improv. It's like a road map. Instead of hunting for the right note or that missing chord, you already know where it is. It makes life a lot easier for me. Also once you know the rules...it makes it even more fun to break 'em
Splinterhead said:Theory has been a big help to me. Especially in improv. It's like a road map. Instead of hunting for the right note or that missing chord, you already know where it is. It makes life a lot easier for me. Also once you know the rules...it makes it even more fun to break 'em
Then how come you aren't impressed if punk writes songs without theory and metal does? Wouldn't the non-theory musicians be more impressive?
