If Mikael knew music theory

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Fields Of Sorrow

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Aug 26, 2008
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It's always amazed me how Mikael is able to write complex songs with little to no knowledge of music theory. Today I was wondering to myself how different Opeth would be, if at all, if Mikael was well versed in music theory.

I don't think a person necessarily needs to know their shit to be a good musician, but I think people (particularly guitarists) have a tendency to try to justify their lack of knowledge by saying they just have a 'good ear'. Thereby implying that classical musicians who read and have been trained don't have a naturally good ear...

Mikael obviously has an outstanding sense of musicality but would it be heightened with a knowledge of theory, or would it turn into a mess of technicality a la recent Dream Theater?

In some ways I think it'd be harder to write in Opeth's style with such a knowledge, as it'd be quite difficult to 'justify' some of the abrupt changes. On the other hand, the application of a few more conscious compositional techniques may enhance the music overall.

Any thoughts on this?
 
music theory explains why things sound the way they do, it doesnt set rules. but it can obv still be missinterpreted and ppl can start seeing obstacles in their creativity. i think opeth works as it is, i rly doubt the pros would > the cons in this case.
 
no theory no shits !! just learn how to play your instrument, all what counts and makes music amazing is feelings !! art shouldn't have boundaries, otherwise, they will suck, i agree that there are some stuff that don't fit whatever it sounds like (maybe they call them experimental music sometimes :p ? ) what feelings are the only essential thing for me, see how metallica were in the 80s and then later on when i believe they didn't have any major prob, touring the world doing their fav thing, drinking, money, chicks, what else do you need? so no they lost the most important thing, the feeling of being pissed off, the stickiness of their statements and attitudes,consequently, their music lacked all these things !! I might be wrong here but that's what i think right now :D . And don't forget that mike's grandmother is interested in music, and used to write songs and poems, so it's in his blood, he's gifted. No worries about his musical knowledge of theory as far as he can write such great music that touch us as deep as u can get.
 
Dudes, here's some advice: Don't get too involved in theory. Right now, I can't write anything but riffs that are all in Harmonic Minor. It will limit your creativity if you give it too much importance.

Marty Friedman talks about that in the 'Melodic Control' video of his. He obviously knows a lot of theory, but likes to only use that as a guide, not a set of rules. He says that he likes to play what sounds good to his ear, not following some pre-defined scale or something.
 
Realturka said:
Dudes, here's some advice: Don't get too involved in theory. Right now, I can't write anything but riffs that are all in Harmonic Minor. It will limit your creativity if you give it too much importance.

Marty Friedman talks about that in the 'Melodic Control' video of his. He obviously knows a lot of theory, but likes to only use that as a guide, not a set of rules. He says that he likes to play what sounds good to his ear, not following some pre-defined scale or something.
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hexwind said:
no theory no shits !! just learn how to play your instrument, all what counts and makes music amazing is feelings !! art shouldn't have boundaries, otherwise, they will suck, i agree that there are some stuff that don't fit whatever it sounds like (maybe they call them experimental music sometimes :p ? ) what feelings are the only essential thing for me, see how metallica were in the 80s and then later on when i believe they didn't have any major prob, touring the world doing their fav thing, drinking, money, chicks, what else do you need? so no they lost the most important thing, the feeling of being pissed off, the stickiness of their statements and attitudes,consequently, their music lacked all these things !! I might be wrong here but that's what i think right now :D . And don't forget that mike's grandmother is interested in music, and used to write songs and poems, so it's in his blood, he's gifted. No worries about his musical knowledge of theory as far as he can write such great music that touch us as deep as u can get.
Click to expand...

Great post, I believe theory should be used to analyze music, but for a LONG while I was limited by theory, I know it quite well, had to get Grade 5 for my University course, then I got into Opeth a lot more and realised just how limited I was by theory, Mikael does whatever the hell he wants and it works! You could use theory to analyze why it works and come up with some big verbose breakdown of the song, but it works because it sounds good, that's the main thing, I decided to just stop thinking about theory when I write, now it takes me 3x as long to write a riff or chord progression, but it sounds 100x better than any of the crap I used to churn out, I use my theory to analyze my chord progressions and try and work out the key it's in so I can jam over them and try new ideas, but I'm even doing that less and less now.

I will say I still use my knowledge of Time Signatures when writing songs though, that's one piece of theory I don't want to let go of.

Mikael is a pretty special guy!

Oh and this is my first post here, long-time lurker, this entire board rules :headbang:
 
I guess all the sweet disharmonics would transform into.. HARMONICS.. uugh, that'd suck.
 
Realturka said:
Dudes, here's some advice: Don't get too involved in theory. Right now, I can't write anything but riffs that are all in Harmonic Minor. It will limit your creativity if you give it too much importance.
Click to expand...

I tend to believe that it's more when you're "accomplished" with theory that it makes more sense. Sure, many can compose without any of it. But it's different.
 
I agree with most of you. Mikael has a very unique style and musical sense of composing. If he did it the "mathematical" way, we would very likely have no Opeth at all. I myself love music, and I have studied music a little, but I get really bored when it comes to composing by organizing chords, tones, "how to make it sound pretty"... fuck that. I think that can very easily make your music go far far away from what you truly feel and wish to set upon musical notes.
If you want to write a song, take it from your soul, not from what others say.
 
Understanding what you're playing is great, 'makes more sense' as you say. But having to feel that you have to stay in Harmonic D minor throughout the entire song, sucks ass. You just gotta know where to stop.

And understanding what you're doing definitely beats writing stuff in a 'Slayer' fashion.
 
Music theory, for myself at least, is a way of understanding sounds that we interpret as music. Kind of like language; one doesn't need to know how to read or write to be able to speak a certain language. It's the same with music theory. I think you would all be surprised at how "normal" Mike's music is if you just analyzed it.
 
Who needs music theory If you can write something that is good and has heart and feeling in it. Lots of the decent bands can do this, bands like Opeth, Wintersun, SLayer, etc all rely on writing from the heart.
 
Sometimes theory helps you figure out what typically sounds good faster (i.e. following a chord progression pattern to decide whether or not to make a chord major or minor when you're writing) - but you should never let it lead you away from what sounds good.
 
Mind you it isn't necessarily a case of not knowing theory, just in a technical sense. Most guitarists tend to start playing songs they like and they come up with a set of things and ideas that work but not necessarily know technically why (the type of chord they are playing, the key of the song, how the notes or chords relate to one another).

And it is not a case of them having a particularly better ear, as even a classical violinist can tell when something doesn't sound quite right if they are experienced listeners in a particular style.

And knowledge of theory isn't necessarily related to actual technical ability on an instrument. I could know more theory but that doesn't automatically make me better at my instrument or change the way I'd do something.
 
^ Yea I saw a couple of videos that led me to that conclusion, but I'm not sure what he knew back when writing earlier albums.
 
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