A Request from anyone who cares..

[Slammer88]

Hello..I have to say forehand that i'll talk about how "unsatisfactory" my mixes and tracks are, and want some suggestions and examples from anyone, who is/are willing to do, so if you wont be one of them, you can click the "Back" button already

So..For a long time, i've been reading this forum for a long time..Theoretically,i've learned lotta things and tried to apply them on my projects, i've made some stuff and put them here but they all remained unanswered

Still, I'm doing my records "by heart" tbh, i.e; tight cutting the 700hz area on guitar, wide lowering the 500hz area on bass, gief some punch with 2-3khz on guitar, gief some beef to kicks with 3khz and above, etc etc. HOWEVER, i'm still not convinced with neither with my tracks nor with the whole thing, some elements dont cover each other, or they all cuddle up in one place and booming or melting or you name it, it simply doesn't work..I WANT to improve myself on mixing! But in a country like Turkey, there aren't much (maybe any) people, who are recording/mixing/mastering Metal music, and yet more important, "willing to be helpful!", so my only solution is this forum..

Now, I will NOT ask for your patches, presets or anything else..I'll ask for, HOW you do your projects and explain it in a "tutor-ish" way, step by step, like before/after sound files or someway else..Besides my own projects/songs, I'm in the edge of a Black Metal album production, which belongs to one of my best friend, and i dont want to disappoint them. Also some questions are;

-Should a mix treated as a whole, after the each channel is done, to compensate lacking frequency ranges?

-Should i use a little chorus effect on bass sounds? How do You or bands do it?

-Shall i make small or big EQ tweaks on guitar to achieve my own unique sound? In case of any lack of frequency (i.e midlessness), how shall i compensate it? Either or that way, no matter how much i tweak, i'm gettin the same result with the tone
I'm all about Vst's and Impulses btw, as i live in an apartment and have retired parents, i dont have a chance to buy myself a decent amp :/

There are some really good stuff on Tube, which belong to Ola Englund and Fearcomplexmusic, Ola made some really good stuff about "recording" and Fear has some detailed tutors like taming the "kick" and so on..Such nice vid's are not only informative, but also a good example for a "start point", but they are NOT informative enough, you know..
I DO like the tones of Ola, which he's getting from his amps, i'm also a Deathcore/Death Metal listener, and my own projects will be on the same way..

I do hope, there are some modest people up there and guide me. My Messenger is paranormal-illusion@hotmail.com, i'm usually online except midnites, when i sleep If anyone willing to help me, can freely contact via this adress..Thanks in advance

Btw, as an opinion, here's my latest project with very bad mixed (maybe not) guitars..I've worked hard on the drums and bass but this time guitars remained sucky

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7305927/Hmm v6.mp3

 

[Pablo333]

Hi there , well I went through having sucky mixes for a long time and what helped me was simply listening lots to my fave bands on the same monitors i mix on.
Your ear starts to learn whats right/wrong.In your mix you posted for example Its instantly apparent that the drums are too loud - they sound good!! but, they drown everything out.

What are you using for Guitars? it really is all in the source sounds - they can almost mix themselves if you balnce properly ( though this rare lol)

Eq i think should be used sparingly - a low+high cut on guitars should really be all you need - perhaps a dip in the mids if theres too much honkyness - Andy's C4 preset helps tame palm mutes really well.

I think for Metal getting the drums sounding killer is on of the most important parts -

again Its about referencing to a great sounding bands song you like - not copying - but getting an idea of how upfront the gtrs are / kick etc...

you wont get it overnight - and i still do some awful mixes ( not enough free time these days)

even some well known bands get their mixes slated ( Meshuggahs Obzen is deemed harsh sounding by a lot of folks but I love the clarity)
so even the top guys can't please everyone!!!

You have got to realise how much time is spent on the commercial bands you hear - rough mixes/ vocal up/down - reamped mixes etc...
I think Andy Sneap really has set a standard in modern metal but he has done it through hard work and practice -
Also the most important thing of all i'd say is the "performance" - it's not often mentioned but if the bands timing sucks or the performance is not tight then it will have a huge effect on the sound of the mix.

Good luck in your mixing in general and just stick with - you could read all the tut's in the world but you should really be sat at your monitors " practicing" getting your ears fine tuned

 

[Slammer88]

Firstly, thanks for your care and answer..Forget to add that fact, yea, i'm actually doing that and try to get the elements from each of them, i.e; Gojira's bass tone, In Flames' guitar tone and Whitechapel's drum sound etc etc, to create my unique sound..Yet it becomes a worrying situtation for me, as i still can't "sound" like 'em..In fact, i'm aware of what's wrong or right and what i want or dont, but i cant reflect that into the practise, simply..

For guitars, i've nearly tried all of the vst's on earth lol, but i'm using mostly TSE X30 or POD Farm 2, followed with different IR's in LeCab2, also i'm using the demo version of CurveEQ (gonna buy soon), which allows me to tweak my sound so detailed, and i got a POD GX. For evening the input signal balance, i'm using some compression on the Stereo In..

As you say, guitars are making "whole" such of this genre's records, so, shaping them was the biggest problem for me, and it still is :/

And a little question, shall a whole mix be tweaked before mastering process?

 

[Pablo333]

And a little question, shall a whole mix be tweaked before mastering process?

depends what you mean by tweaked, I use TC Master X5 for mastering and use the frequency bands to add some mids or whatever helps the mix.

In general, you want the mix to sound stompin before touching the master bus - I actually mix "into" the TC and then adjust the freq bands by 1 or 2dB if it needs it - then simply raise the input into the soft clipper/limiter, I dont use the compression.

Get your self off Podfarm and just record a good tone dialled in on the Pod - it's trial and error , but thats half the fun!!!

Heres an old Death metal tune I did - Undead Ged

mixed in Cubase - nothing fancy -- no compression on the drums or gtr's

 

[Trevoire520]

Stop focusing on manipulating things later to get stuff sounding good. Spend time getting things to sound great at the source.

Fresh strings on your guitar/bass when recording. Get the right settings on the amp sim and the right combo of amp/cab/mic.

 

[Slammer88]

wow, it sounds really "death" i mean, compensating or with your term, "helping" the mix

sadly i dont have any equipment, i'm all about software stuff :/

 

[Pablo333]

Stop focusing on manipulating things later to get stuff sounding good. Spend time getting things to sound great at the source.

Fresh strings on your guitar/bass when recording. Get the settings on the amp sim and the right combo of amp/cab/mic.

+infinty!!!!

 

[Slammer88]

Even closely and repeatedly listening wont solve the problems sometimes..I.E; i'd really like to achieve In Flames' Soundtrack 2 your Escape's guitar tone..just adding an 5150 vst and a cab after it alone, will NOT solve the equation as you all know..some tweak MUST be done, and thats the point where i'm still stuck at

 

[reg3n]

you need real gear for that sound.

 

[Slammer88]

Yea but, when you just "think", all of that mic placements, even the cab's themselves, JUST an Equalizer, that shaping the raw distorted signal coming from the amp..As a result, a signal, either on computer or on a real amp distorted, is being EQ'ed, and some post process stuff like Saturating etc..How much difference could it be really?

 

[reg3n]

I think you already know that, use your ears.

 

[DanLights]

Yea but, when you just "think", all of that mic placements, even the cab's themselves, JUST an Equalizer, that shaping the raw distorted signal coming from the amp..As a result, a signal, either on computer or on a real amp distorted, is being EQ'ed, and some post process stuff like Saturating etc..How much difference could it be really?

Exactly what Reg3n said. You know yourself how much of a difference there is. A signal is not just being "Eq'd" when put through an amp, it's much more than that

 

[SimonTaddio_Qc]

Amp sims are like fapping to internet porn, whereas using real amps/mics/preamp is more like a gang bang in the VIP section of a stripper club...there's the difference between the 2 right there

 

[Slammer88]

I've opened this thread to say "my ears arent enough" simply, as i think i'm still lacking somethin from the elementary stuff, thats why i've demanded such before/after comparisons to see the differences Anyway, thank you all for your kind answers

BTW, i've got a chance to play thru an Engl Powerball and 6505 with a 1960A 4*12 Cab..The sound i got from both amps were close to each other and surprisingly, really close to the current vst's sounds like X30 and Revalver Only lacking thing is the pressure, the "feel" of the real amp..

 

[DanLights]

Only lacking thing is the pressure, the "feel" of the real amp..

Yeah that's definitely the factor that still can't be done on ampsims, the sound of air being moved out of the speakers.

P.S. Not trying to be an asshole or anything, just pointing out what you haven't seemed to notice, or you do notice but want to deny. At least it's nice for a change that you actually prefer to blame your ears than your gear instead of so many people who do the opposite. And ampsims are great, I'm a huge advocate of them, but it's undeniable that they still can't match the sound of a (good, well mic'd in a good room) real amp, they'r just different, and sometimes depending on the situation might be even a better fit than a real amp, it's all about context and experimentation

 

[Slammer88]

Yeah that's definitely the factor that still can't be done on ampsims, the sound of air being moved out of the speakers.

P.S. Not trying to be an asshole or anything, just pointing out what you haven't seemed to notice, or you do notice but want to deny. At least it's nice for a change that you actually prefer to blame your ears than your gear instead of so many people who do the opposite. And ampsims are great, I'm a huge advocate of them, but it's undeniable that they still can't match the sound of a (good, well mic'd in a good room) real amp, they'r just different, and sometimes depending on the situation might be even a better fit than a real amp, it's all about context and experimentation

Yes, sadly, you are right at that fact

Yet i'm trying to do the best i can with my current equipment. I dont have decent monitors, or a sound card, i got a AKG K-99 Headphones, Kurzweil KS-40A monitors, POD GX sound card and a RG7321 with Evo7 on Bridge, but i got inspiration At least i try to do something better, but mostly i suck LOL. Problem is, when trying to achieve somethin better with ur current project, in the name of "trial", i change lots of things, doing millions of eq settings on guitars, add this and remove that, change some other things that doesnt sound well with the new settings, and finally it does suck

The sound quality, which lots of users on this forum can achieve, is enough for me, as its way more better than mine, i'm targetting theirs "for now"..Freq. Range and Dynamics, Balances, Instruments that make each other "whole and so on..Even with a X30 and some IR's, people doing great stuff, thats the point which is sad for me Got the same plugins, even using the same settings, but fail at last..

 

[Slammer88]

Here's my newest mix, all guitars re-recorded, drums re-worked a little, but the biggest difference is, i've made this thru the speakers, not from the headphones Guitar and Bass chain is shown as well..

 

[bryan_kilco]

That seems like too much of a dip at 500hz for the bass! But I guess it is what ever works.

 

[Trevoire520]

Listening to your track I'm immediately noticing a couple of things.
A: Drums sound really weak. What program are you using?
B: Bass guitar is real quiet. Crank that shit up! Alot of your low end power and perceived beef in the guitars actually comes from the bass.

Seems like your eq-ing your guitars to death. Could you do a new mix with louder bass and no eq on the guitars so we can see how that sounds?

 

[Slammer88]

@Trevoire, it is Superior Drummer, Snare is from DFH, toms are from Avatar, rest is M.Foundry. I've internally split the kit pieces and opened each of them separate channels and treated them again, then i'Ve merged these channels on a single bus again..

Drums..They were weaker than now, i'm aware of this problem actually for a long time, so i've used a PSPVintageWarmer on the main bus of drums to beef them up..

Well, i'm EQ'ing the guitars not only to find their places in teh mix, but also to find a "unique" tone for myself but seems i failed hehe ok i'll make a new one asap