A small insight into the musician visa process

adaher

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Apr 18, 2004
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http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB126040747425984693-lMyQjAxMDI5NjEwMDQxMDA3Wj.html

LOS ANGELES -- When Jordan Peimer booked an Argentine band that fuses Jewish Klezmer music with tango, he thought he had the perfect act to headline his "Fiesta Hanukkah" concert.

"It is hard to imagine any band more fitting than Orquesta Kef," says Mr. Peimer, the program's director at the Skirball Cultural Center here. The event was designed to attract a Jewish audience and the city's burgeoning Hispanic community.


That was before the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services weighed in with some cultural commentary of its own. The band couldn't travel to the U.S., the agency ruled, because it didn't satisfy a "culturally unique" requirement for a performer visa called P-3.

"The evidence repeatedly suggests the group performs a hybrid or fusion style of music...[which] cannot be considered culturally unique to one particular country, nation, society, class, ethnicity, religion, tribe or other group of persons," read the denial. It was signed by caseworker CSC4672/WS24533.

Mr. Peimer was incensed. "How more culturally specific can you get than Jewish music of Latin America?" he asked. After Mr. Peimer did some venting on his Facebook page, a reader quipped that this is the era of "ethnomusicalsecurity."

In fact, immigration law gives an anonymous group of government bureaucrats a lot of cultural clout: They can decide which foreign ballerinas, musicians and artists qualify as "outstanding," or special enough to deserve a visa to enter the U.S.

Ultimately, most applications are approved. Some organizations and promoters representing artists complain that official judgments of artistic merit are often arbitrary, however.

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Argentinian band Orquesta Kef was denied a performance visa.
Orquesta Kef

Argentinian band Orquesta Kef was denied a performance visa.
Argentinian band Orquesta Kef was denied a performance visa.
Argentinian band Orquesta Kef was denied a performance visa.

Los Angeles concert promoter Grand Performances booked an Indian music ensemble called Jaipur Kawa Brass Band for a summer gig. U.S. consular authorities approved visas for six members of the band, but rejected two, including the band's only competent English speaker. No explanation was given. "U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services processes the petition but State [consular office] must grant the visa," says a spokeswoman for the agency. "It is outside our area of jurisdiction." The State Department noted only that a common reason for refusal is a perceived intent by a non-immigrant visa applicant to immigrate to the U.S.

The U.S. sponsor for the all-male Brazilian hip-hop company Grupo de Rua applied for a P-1 visa, and submitted articles about the dance company's performances in Tokyo, Berlin, Paris and the Edinburgh Art Festival. Immigration officer number AA0089 requested "evidence the group had achieved international recognition and acclaim."

Immigration officials don't agree that appearances necessarily add up to that. "Being internationally acclaimed is not equivalent to performing on stages overseas," says the spokeswoman.

"We didn't know what to do," says Harold Norris, president of H-Art Management in New York. "We had to turn the whole case over to a lawyer" to get it approved, which it was, as the tour dates approached.

According to the Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual Volume 9, "internationally recognized" signifies "a high level of achievement in a field evidenced by a degree of skill and recognition substantially above that ordinarily encountered, to the extent that such achievement is renowned, leading, or well-known in more than one country."

Artists who wish to visit the U.S. for a performance typically need a P-1 visa; a P-3 visa, issued to entertainers participating in a culturally unique program; or an O-1 visa, for individuals with extraordinary ability in the arts, education or sciences. Once a visa is approved, artists visit a local U.S. consular office to get it stamped in their passport.

Immigration authorities say that in weeding out applicants they deem marginal, they are simply carrying out the intent of Congress in creating the visa categories. The P category is meant to promote the exchange of culture and the arts. The O category is sometimes called the "genius visa. "


There's more upsetting news if you can bear to click on the link. I know this is sorta politics-y, but it's related to visas and since that's been a problem lately, I thought folks would be interested.
 
This is why bands that come over to play the US from these certain countries should just come as tourists and say nothing about playing music with their band. If there is a will there is a way and screw the politics behind it. I know its not as easy as that but they keep screwing the fans over there has got to be a work around.

Bear
 
It almost seems like they are trying to practice a form of protectionism. As if they want promoters to book American bands instead of European bands.
 
Artists who wish to visit the U.S. for a performance typically need a P-1 visa; a P-3 visa, issued to entertainers participating in a culturally unique program; or an O-1 visa, for individuals with extraordinary ability in the arts, education or sciences. Once a visa is approved, artists visit a local U.S. consular office to get it stamped in their passport.

Immigration authorities say that in weeding out applicants they deem marginal, they are simply carrying out the intent of Congress in creating the visa categories. The P category is meant to promote the exchange of culture and the arts. The O category is sometimes called the "genius visa. "
Ok, ok, I've got just one question, WHY? Maybe I'm naive, but WHY do we need this vetting system for the arts? What are they protecting us from? Does it cost taxpayers something to grant the visas? Does it hurt the U.S. entertainment industry? WHY does some bureaucratic governmental agency with dubious knowledge of the arts get to decide what the citizens of this country are exposed to? Isn't that somehow limiting our freedom of education or some such thing? I just don't see how this limitation on artists visas is justified.
Is it really all about the chance they may all decide to stay here? With the nearly unchecked flood of illegals (often unskilled and under-educated) streaming in from the south, why do they feel the need to spend our tax dollars blocking artists trying to legitimately enter the country to share their work? Couldn't those dollars be better spent?

Clearly I'm missing something. Can someone please explain?
 
Ok, ok, I've got just one question, WHY? Maybe I'm naive, but WHY do we need this vetting system for the arts? What are they protecting us from? Does it cost taxpayers something to grant the visas? Does it hurt the U.S. entertainment industry?
...
Clearly I'm missing something. Can someone please explain?

In short terms, the idea behind the visa process being so long-winded and difficult is to protect the US job market. You could say that any band coming into the country is taking away that potential "job" from an American band. As an American citizen I'm sure you wouldn't like it if someone from another country came in and stole your job, right? So, basically this is the idea behind the visa/immigration process.

I know in situations like this, where music is art and no two bands are alike, it seems ridiculously over-the-top, but there's a reason why it is as it is, and until someone "questions" the process and the proper way nothing will change. The only way we can participate in actually altering this process is writing our representatives and hopefully make them listen. What we (the consumer of music) need to do, is to convince our "chosen few" that musicians aren't here to take away jobs from other US-citizen and that we (the consumers) will continue to support the local musicians even if we buy a ticket to a show with a non-US band.

c.
 
This is why bands that come over to play the US from these certain countries should just come as tourists and say nothing about playing music with their band. If there is a will there is a way and screw the politics behind it. I know its not as easy as that but they keep screwing the fans over there has got to be a work around.

Bear

If the band has merch to sell that probably makes it trickier.
 
I cannot help but comment on this subject. I have done the visas for PPUSA for the last 2 years and I am, after last year, getting ready to start the process for PPUSA XI with much fear and trembling. I cannot adequately express what a absolutely twisted and f*cked up process the whole visa application process is. As a brief background, I have been a trial lawyer (in California) for 20 years and my undergraduate degree is in philosophy with a minor in Humanities with an emphasis in post-modernist literature (with major emphasis on existentialist authors, e.g., Kafka, Camus, Sartre, etc.). I mention this only to make the case for the fact that I am very experienced in reading, interpreting and understanding complex and confusing text. It is what I have done for at least the last 30 years of my 45 year life. I have no prior experience in immigration law, visas, etc., and have learned what I know under the tutelage of Glenn and then by research and communicating with (and dealing with) the American Federation of Musicians (AFM) and, finally, the agencies of the United States (USCIS).

As mentioned in adaher's original post, there are 3--only 3--classifications by which a visa can be applied for by a musician/band: P-1, P-3 and O-1. P-1 is for an "alien entertainer coming temporarily to perform as a member of a foreing-based entertainment group that has been recognized internationally as outstanding in the disipline for a substantial period of time, and who has had a sustained relationship....with the group." Evidence that must be provided with the visa application for a P-1 is that the group has received or been nominated for "significant international awards or prizes for outstanding acheivement" or that the group can demonstarte at least three of the following: "(A) The ...group has perfromed or will perform as a staring or leading group in productions or events with a distinguished reputation; (B) The ...group has acheived international recognition and acclaim for outstanding acheivment in the feild; (C) The ...group has a record of major commercial or critically acclaimed success; (D) The ...group has received significant recognition for acheivements from critics, organizations, government agencies, or other recognized experts in the feild; or (E) The ...group commands a high salary or other substantial renumeration for services compared to other similarly situated in the field." These are not the only requirements for a P-1 application, but they are the highlights. Let's be honest...how many of the metal bands that we as a metal community listen to woudl be able to meet the requirements of a P-1 visa? Metallica, Rush, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, etc.? Sure. Any band that plays the clubs we go to or who would play PPUSA? No way. You will note that the requirements for a P-1 visa are not only vague but subjective. What productions or events have a "distinguished reputation"? For us, PPUSA, Wacken, Sweden Rock Fest, etc. clearly have a "distinguished reputation." To a nameless agent with the Department of Immigration...? Probably not. What is "international recognition and acclaim, " "a record of major commercial or critically acclaimed success, " etc.? I don't need to beat the obvious here.

P-3 visa applications are for a group coming to "perform, teach, or coach...in the arts or entertainment fields in a program that is culturally unique." Evidence submitted with a P-3 application must include, among other things, :"(A) Affidavits, testimonials, or letters from recognized experts attesting to the authenticity of the ...group's skills in presenting, coaching, or teaching art forms; or (B) Documentation that the performance of the...group is culturally unique as evidenced by actual reviews in newspapers, journals, or other published material." Again, very vague and very subjective.

The O-1 classification is for individuals (not groups) who have "extraordinary ability in the arts or extraordinary acheivement in the motion picture or television industry." The evidence that must be presented with the application is essentially the same as that specified for a P-1 application but it applies to an individual instead of a group.

Now add to the above that after getting the required approval form the AFM (who are really very nice people and never a problem at all), you send the application and all of the supporting documentation/evidence (which includes full translations of any non-English text that has been certified as correct by a certified translator) to the USCIS where it vanishes into the abyss. Once you have submitted the application, there is nothing more you can do until you get a "ruling" from the USCIS--approved or not approved. If the application is not approved, you are not told why--other than receiving a form letter which states that the application did not meetthe requirements of the classification applied for. There is no one you can talk to; there is no one you can appeal to; you have no idea who reviewed and/or determined the fate of your application; and you do not specifically know why the application was denied. There is probably some manner in which you can "appeal" but that would undoubtedly take very expensive attorneys who have extensive experience in immigration law, etc., and it is economically unfeasible to try that route unless you are trying to bring in U2, Iron Maiden, etc--who would never be denied in the first place.

Oh...you cannot submit the application any sooner than 6 months before the date of the performance and it generally takes months for you to get back the initial response--approval or no approval--from the USCIS. Hence, if you are not approved, there is really very little time for you to work on trying to present additional evidence (which you are guessing at) to the USCIS.

Finally, you pay a moderately hefty fee when you submit your application to the USCIS--in addition to what you have to pay to the AFM when you submit the paperwork to them for initial approval (as they are the union you need approval from).

I have really just scratched the surface on this process. What I am trying to communicate is that the visa process is Kafkaesque at the very least. You do the best you can and then the application disappears into the black hole of the United States government. When it comes out and what it will come out as is a mystery and once it does come out, you are forced to accept what it is. Last year was a nightmare. Glenn has written about it at length and I will not reiterate here what he so clearly explained before. Suffice it to say that, for reasons no one can comprehend, Sabaton, Pagan's Mind, Brainstorm, etc., were approved while Andre Matos, Vaned Plas, Power Quest, etc. were not. Originally, some members of Royal Hunt were approved and some were not--go figure. When we received notice that Vanden Plas, Andre Matos, etc., were not approved, you have no idea how much work we put in to submitting additional evidence. The artists were sending me special stuff--Gunter Werno sent rushed me DVDs and CDs (live Christ 0 performances, etc.) to demonstrate their theatrical presentations, etc.--and Glenn was getting well-known rock/metal journalists and authors to provide written testimonials, etc. Obviously, you know the outcome of all of our efforts. We got screwed.

As to the initial question everyone asks, why/how can this happen(?), I have no answer for that. For a govenment of the people, by the people and for the people, the people have no information, no influence and no recourse. Personally, after last year, i have to assume that certain agents have their own subjective criteria for making their determinations. Some agents may simply see that it is a "heavy metal" group and/or a group with a "strange" or "evil-sounding" name and dismiss them off-the-cuff. How can you explain the groups that were approved last year in relation to the groups who were not? It appears arbitrary. It also appears that the USCIS is getting tighter in its requirements and is failing to approve many more groups than it has in the past.

Traditionally, the applications for PPUSA were made under a P-3 classification. After last year, we have made the decision to apply under the P-1 classification in the hopes that the disapprovals of last year were tied to the "culturally unique" requirement. I don't mind saying that I am concerned that the bands we are applying for won't meet the strict requirements of the P-1. However, we have to try. Unfortunately, as much as we would all like to try to--and are tempted to--bring bands in "under the radar" as tourists and sidestep the entire visa applcation process altogether, that is a recipe for disaster. If the USCIS or other government agency found out that was happening, it could result in the involved bands being "black-listed" and never getting into the US again and/or it coudl result in PPUSA/Glenn getting the wrath of the US govenment beating down on him--which could include crippling fines and who knows what else. Obviously, no one wants that. PPUSA is a little too big to fly below the radar. Also, having submitted applications year after year for a number of years now, PPUSA may be on someone's radar. Finally, given that we are submitting applications, one of the USCIS agents may go to the PPUSA web site and if he sees bands that applications were not submitted for, what do we think would happen? Hence, we have to do this the right way or we may suffer much more than we already do.

In the end, visa application process is like the Wizard of Oz--if you couldn't pull back the curtain. We have no idea who or what the Wizard is or by what method or madness his decisions are made. We simply have to live with them. I wish i coudl tell you different, but I can't I wish I could tell you it will get better but I would have no basis for doing so. All i can say is that I/we will continue to do the best job possible to bring you the best bands possible and, having announced them 6 months before their visa applications can even be submitted, I/we will do everything we can (within economic reason, of course) to get those bands here. As to any bands that don't make it through the process, all I can say is it ain't our fault. Trust me....
 
Claus is right. In the USA all music is considered part of the "entertainment industry" and the musicians are seen just as workers on the assembly lines in the industry. According to this thinking there are jobs to protect form the invading foreigners. European view of musicians is different, they are considered artists who rather belong to the culture department. Touring bands are seen "cultural exchange", not aliens stealing jobs. They have something to give and enrich people's lives, right?

OK, at least the commercial aspect in European thinking isn't always so obvious. European governments fund many different forms of arts in order to save those which can't get by with the commercial income but still carry important cultural heritage. In this atmosphere of thinking American musicians have much easier access to European market than vice versa. But every time when someone calls the American way what it very obviously is: protectionism, the reply is a furious denial. "America is not protectionist at all" - according to Americans. Go ask someone who accessed the US market from outside, the bureaucracy is overwhelming and the regulations suffocating. Every necessary slip of paper cost a fortune. Many smaller acts won't ever bother trying because thrusting through the protective shell of regulations would take too much funds and efforts.

/sorry for the rant ;) It's your country, you make the rules there...
 
In short terms, the idea behind the visa process being so long-winded and difficult is to protect the US job market. You could say that any band coming into the country is taking away that potential "job" from an American band. As an American citizen I'm sure you wouldn't like it if someone from another country came in and stole your job, right? So, basically this is the idea behind the visa/immigration process.

I know in situations like this, where music is art and no two bands are alike, it seems ridiculously over-the-top, but there's a reason why it is as it is, and until someone "questions" the process and the proper way nothing will change. The only way we can participate in actually altering this process is writing our representatives and hopefully make them listen. What we (the consumer of music) need to do, is to convince our "chosen few" that musicians aren't here to take away jobs from other US-citizen and that we (the consumers) will continue to support the local musicians even if we buy a ticket to a show with a non-US band.

c.

That would make *some* sense (from an American government perspective), except that as an IT consultant, about 80% of the people with whom I work barely speak English, and are here on an H1-B visa from India, China, Korea, Pakistan, etc.

So I guess it's "protect the jobs of the American musicians" but "f*** the IT workers!!" :erk:

Craig
 
Thanks, Claus, I assumed that to be the reason, which is even more ludicrous. It makes no sense! With so many of our jobs being outsourced overseas, and eliminated or reduced by the internet, it's ridiculous that a few musicians would have any impact at all on the opportunities for homegrown artists. This is a system long overdue for getting revamped. Seems the restrictions and denials are actually getting worse instead of waning, which is what should be happening.

Thanks for the info, Karmakazi. Glad I didn't offer my assistance. ;) Lotsa a luck w/that BS.
 
Yet more ammunition to back up why I left the US to live in Europe...well, elected to stay in Europe after my tour of duty was up. American society is so fucked and the only people who can't see it are Americans.
 
Yet more ammunition to back up why I left the US to live in Europe...well, elected to stay in Europe after my tour of duty was up. American society is so fucked and the only people who can't see it are Americans.


Oh we can see it as Americans... nobody wants to do a fucking thing about it... besides bitch about the powers that be, who all suck balls.

Anarchy!:headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang:
 
Wow, I had no idea it was THIS messy.... Bizarre.

I have to get visas for the bands I bring to play in Brazil... It's annoying, but at least I know what I need to do to get it done... If I submit the right paperwork, the bands will get their visas... no matter how big or small.
Last time the agent was super friendly... haha He got really interested in the band, looked them up on Myspace and everything ahhah
 
That was an interesting read and I'm glad that Karmakazi stepped in to explain the process a bit more as far as ProgPower goes. It's disheartening to know that some bands are going to be denied access to the states, but I think the worst part is that there is no clear reason given as to why it happens. As Karmakazi mentioned it doesn't make any kind of sense why certain bands weren't able to attend ProgPower when compared to the rest of the line-up. I'm cautiously hopeful that switching to the new type of visa will help more metal bands make the trip to ProgPower, but at the same time worried that restrictions will keep getting tighter and make it more difficult.
 
So the idiots in charge are worried about a few artists taking jobs... those artists are following the rules and going by the book to get screwed?!?!? meanwhile we let a fuck load of illegals into our country to piss all over everything that we and our parents busted our asses for... What the fuck is wrong with this picture?:heh:

Once again, Anarchy!!!:headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang:

It is gonna take more than we can imagine.
 
I thought it might be about protectionism. And although I don't think it has any merit, to someone who thinks in simple terms, it would seem that putting a Swedish band in the lineup keeps a band like Seven Kingdoms or Cellador off the lineup. Never mind that if Glenn could only sign American bands, the festival probably wouldn't be viable and wouldn't exist in the first place. That was the whole point of ProgPower, to bring these bands to the USA that American fans would probably never get a chance to see otherwise!

This is why I'm a libertarian. Governments are necessary evils at best, and when allowed too much authority, become just plain evil.