I just tried mixing up that kick, snare and OH's and I just cant seem to spread the kick through panoramics like you did.. mine is just way too centered. Any suggestions ? Or is it just because i'm not using drumagog ? Thanks a lot for your guide, it kicked ass !
Acoustic Drums for Metal: A Guide
- Thread starter Glenn Fricker
- Start date
Great info. What do you think of triggering bass drums from a outboard unit such as the DM5?
Pepler
Pepler
BushmasterM4
Old Fart
- Sep 12, 2007
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Ive been micing my drums with the overheads spread from day one. Im new to the whole recording thing and tried different aspects and it worked the best IMHO. My son and his friend in the pictures. Anyone guess the artwork behind him? Not done yet. My daughter is doing it and one day she will get it painted.
My son and his friend in the pictures. Anyone guess the artwork behind him? Not done yet. My daughter is doing it and one day she will get it painted.
Yeah, that's the cover of HERO HERO. The one with the rockin' mix of Diamonds and Rust that didn't make it onto Sad Wings.... Kind of a shame, because the Roger Glover produced version of it that was on Sin after Sin sucked balls in comparison.
SickBoy
Croatian Panzer division
+1
Always missed those awesome harmony guitars during verses on the album version... One of the best cover songs EVER!
BushmasterM4
Old Fart
- Sep 12, 2007
- 207
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- 16
Hetoimasia
New Metal Member
- Oct 11, 2007
- 7
- 0
- 1
Hi Guys!
I'am in just for that awesome thread now too! Thanks a lot to all, especially to Oz for providing a real Drum-Recording "history" while allways improving this and that!
I am first off all interested in some theory issues, because I want to understand some things better before I start my next tests.
In the begining of the thread phase issues where a big thing to discuss about (with that XY setup - phase alignment vs phase shifting). Then the 3:1 rule came up to be of interest here.
Are you (Oz) now still phase aligning your snare and bass drum to the overheads!? With that SAE-axis concept, bass and snare lie on an axis and have the same distance from the overheads - so it should be possible to do a phase alignment while mic positioning was exact??
Are you doing it, or do you try to remove bass drum and snare from the overhead signals with that sidechaining????
But I thougt a bit about the 3:1 rule. When we for example take the 2nd rack tom: the overhead mics will in no case be three times as far from each other than they are from the 2nd rack tom!?????
But they are both recording the 2nd rack tom. Same with bass and snare (but here you can do the phase aligning trick because they should have the same distance to each overhead mic).
I think the phase alignment works for the 2nd tom too, when it has the same distance to both overheads. but now the other toms are coming... - they have in no way the same distance to each of the spaced overheads and are also more than 1/3 of the "Oh-mic to Oh-mic distance" away from the overhead on one side... if you understand what I try to say...
The same would be the case for cymbals which are not hung up hard left hard right on the kit!?? How do you solve that problem!?
Got I something wrong!??
Thanks for answering!!!
I'am in just for that awesome thread now too! Thanks a lot to all, especially to Oz for providing a real Drum-Recording "history" while allways improving this and that!
I am first off all interested in some theory issues, because I want to understand some things better before I start my next tests.
In the begining of the thread phase issues where a big thing to discuss about (with that XY setup - phase alignment vs phase shifting). Then the 3:1 rule came up to be of interest here.
Are you (Oz) now still phase aligning your snare and bass drum to the overheads!? With that SAE-axis concept, bass and snare lie on an axis and have the same distance from the overheads - so it should be possible to do a phase alignment while mic positioning was exact??
Are you doing it, or do you try to remove bass drum and snare from the overhead signals with that sidechaining????
But I thougt a bit about the 3:1 rule. When we for example take the 2nd rack tom: the overhead mics will in no case be three times as far from each other than they are from the 2nd rack tom!?????
But they are both recording the 2nd rack tom. Same with bass and snare (but here you can do the phase aligning trick because they should have the same distance to each overhead mic).I think the phase alignment works for the 2nd tom too, when it has the same distance to both overheads. but now the other toms are coming... - they have in no way the same distance to each of the spaced overheads and are also more than 1/3 of the "Oh-mic to Oh-mic distance" away from the overhead on one side... if you understand what I try to say...
The same would be the case for cymbals which are not hung up hard left hard right on the kit!?? How do you solve that problem!?
Got I something wrong!??
Thanks for answering!!!
Hetoimasia
New Metal Member
- Oct 11, 2007
- 7
- 0
- 1
Hi Guys!
I'am in just for that awesome thread now too! Thanks a lot to all, especially to Oz for providing a real Drum-Recording "history" while allways improving this and that!
I am first off all interested in some theory issues, because I want to understand some things better before I start my next tests.
In the begining of the thread phase issues where a big thing to discuss about (with that XY setup - phase alignment vs phase shifting). Then the 3:1 rule came up to be of interest here.
Are you (Oz) now still phase aligning your snare and bass drum to the overheads!? With that SAE-axis concept, bass and snare lie on an axis and have the same distance from the overheads - so it should be possible to do a phase alignment while mic positioning was exact??
Are you doing it, or do you try to remove bass drum and snare from the overhead signals with that sidechaining????
But I thougt a bit about the 3:1 rule. When we for example take the 2nd rack tom: the overhead mics will in no case be three times as far from each other than they are from the 2nd rack tom!????? But they are both recording the 2nd rack tom. Same with bass and snare (but here you can do the phase aligning trick because they should have the same distance to each overhead mic).
I think the phase alignment works for the 2nd tom too, when it has the same distance to both overheads. but now the other toms are coming... - they have in no way the same distance to each of the spaced overheads and are also more than 1/3 of the "Oh-mic to Oh-mic distance" away from the overhead on one side... if you understand what I try to say...
The same would be the case for cymbals which are not hung up "hard left" or "hard right" on the kit!?? How do you solve that problem!?
Got I something wrong!??
Thanks for answering!!!
I'am in just for that awesome thread now too! Thanks a lot to all, especially to Oz for providing a real Drum-Recording "history" while allways improving this and that!
I am first off all interested in some theory issues, because I want to understand some things better before I start my next tests.
In the begining of the thread phase issues where a big thing to discuss about (with that XY setup - phase alignment vs phase shifting). Then the 3:1 rule came up to be of interest here.
Are you (Oz) now still phase aligning your snare and bass drum to the overheads!? With that SAE-axis concept, bass and snare lie on an axis and have the same distance from the overheads - so it should be possible to do a phase alignment while mic positioning was exact??
Are you doing it, or do you try to remove bass drum and snare from the overhead signals with that sidechaining????
But I thougt a bit about the 3:1 rule. When we for example take the 2nd rack tom: the overhead mics will in no case be three times as far from each other than they are from the 2nd rack tom!?????
But they are both recording the 2nd rack tom. Same with bass and snare (but here you can do the phase aligning trick because they should have the same distance to each overhead mic).I think the phase alignment works for the 2nd tom too, when it has the same distance to both overheads. but now the other toms are coming... - they have in no way the same distance to each of the spaced overheads and are also more than 1/3 of the "Oh-mic to Oh-mic distance" away from the overhead on one side... if you understand what I try to say...
The same would be the case for cymbals which are not hung up "hard left" or "hard right" on the kit!?? How do you solve that problem!?
Got I something wrong!??
Thanks for answering!!!
Hetoimasia
New Metal Member
- Oct 11, 2007
- 7
- 0
- 1
Hey guys, I finally upgraded my kit to a full 7 piece double bass setup.
My question is, how do I setup my overheads to avoid too much hat/ride now?
I'm going from this:
Which works beautifully on a 5/6 piece kit, to this:
If anyone's got some diagrams, it would be a great help!
-0z-
My question is, how do I setup my overheads to avoid too much hat/ride now?
I'm going from this:
Which works beautifully on a 5/6 piece kit, to this:
If anyone's got some diagrams, it would be a great help!
-0z-
Brett - K A L I S I A
Dreaded Moderator
HeadCrusher
Member
Well, I guess you gotta save somewhere if you buy all these fance drums and the apropriate rack...
Wise-asses! I didn't have my ride up at the time. Usually I'll have drummers bring in a china, extra crash, etc...
Still looking for a suggestion on placement, though....
Still looking for a suggestion on placement, though....
Hetoimasia
New Metal Member
- Oct 11, 2007
- 7
- 0
- 1
@Oz
When you want to keep the concept of the center-line suggested by the SAE than it becomes quite difficult, because you get one bass drum slightly left and the other on the right... but the snare will be in the centre of the sound-picture and the overheads over the largest tom and the hihat...
Did you read my question to the 3:1 rule and the phase alignment above?! If I knew whether you further do phase alignment or not I could probably answer a bit better... but only from a theoretical point of view.
When you want to keep the concept of the center-line suggested by the SAE than it becomes quite difficult, because you get one bass drum slightly left and the other on the right... but the snare will be in the centre of the sound-picture and the overheads over the largest tom and the hihat...
Did you read my question to the 3:1 rule and the phase alignment above?! If I knew whether you further do phase alignment or not I could probably answer a bit better... but only from a theoretical point of view.
Don't do too much phase-alignment any more. I find once the OH have been rolled off at about 600hz, phase really doesn't become that big of an issue anymore.
Sloan
Sounds like shit!
Just space the overheads so your snare is still dead center and you have an equal balance of both kicks in their respective side of the stereo image.
You probably won't have the mics in the exact position, but you know, whatever.
You probably won't have the mics in the exact position, but you know, whatever.
Fivestringcult
Yam puddled, our kid.
Awesome stuff in this thread, it's all been really helpful. Kudos to Oz for his efforts!
I just got myself some plywood to go underneath the drums in my studio, and on first impression it creates a lot more reverberation in the room. I guess this is normal, but more to the point, is it good? I haven't had chance to get anything recorded with it yet unfortunately, but I'm a little concerned about it muddying up the sound (I'm used to recording drums on carpet, which is a lot more "dead" in comparison). I guess if the worst comes to the worst I can just take it back up, but it'll be a right pain in the arse having to set up the kit + mics, find it doesn't sound so hot, take everything down, remove the plywood, and set it all up again.
For the record, three of the walls have cloth-covered fibreglass insulation across them, and the fourth wall is bare concrete with large mirrors (the studio doubles as a rehearsal room).
I just got myself some plywood to go underneath the drums in my studio, and on first impression it creates a lot more reverberation in the room. I guess this is normal, but more to the point, is it good? I haven't had chance to get anything recorded with it yet unfortunately, but I'm a little concerned about it muddying up the sound (I'm used to recording drums on carpet, which is a lot more "dead" in comparison). I guess if the worst comes to the worst I can just take it back up, but it'll be a right pain in the arse having to set up the kit + mics, find it doesn't sound so hot, take everything down, remove the plywood, and set it all up again.
For the record, three of the walls have cloth-covered fibreglass insulation across them, and the fourth wall is bare concrete with large mirrors (the studio doubles as a rehearsal room).
Hetoimasia
New Metal Member
- Oct 11, 2007
- 7
- 0
- 1
Yes the way Sloan suggested the Overhead placement would be they way I would do it as well. Again it might be good to measure distances exact, so that one gets a real stereo image.
@Oz
ok so you use to cut everything beyond 600Hz and do not have phase-issues anymore... Ok, I will try it!
@Oz
ok so you use to cut everything beyond 600Hz and do not have phase-issues anymore... Ok, I will try it
!
Fivestringcult
Yam puddled, our kid.
Just practiced with my band last night with the kit all set up on the plywood (and tuned with a Tension Watch, I should add) and it sounded absolutely monstrous all night, even on my tatty old rehearsal kit.
If it sounds that good just in the room, I guess that's half the battle won already once we come to record on some decent drums.
If it sounds that good just in the room, I guess that's half the battle won already once we come to record on some decent drums.
