Adam Carolla goes on rant about OWS

[Mutant]

An ungodly amount which to some people/companies is peanuts.
It seems what you're saying is that if you've got enough money, the law doesn't really apply to you, and that's ok. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I was talking about taxes and what people get for paying them.

Paying more taxes than an average Joe, but not getting any better service from the country was the context you clearly missed.

Is the expensive lawyer included in the package they would get from the country or are they forced to pay him out of their pockets ?

I'm pretty amazed by the number of people who are
1) Against what the protesters are for, calling them lazy and whatnot
2) Against protesting in general, calling it whining and attention-seeking.

Heh.

Maybe you can tell me what are they for or against ?

But be warned that according to them, you can't form any demands and speak to media on behalf of the whole movement...

And that they say "We are our demands." whatever that may mean...

Avoid general slogans like "against social injustice", or "for better living conditions for everyone" and give me some details on how exactly they want to fix it all.

Oh you can't ? Thats the main problem here.

 

[John_C]

Paying more taxes than an average Joe, but not getting any better service from the country was the context you clearly missed.

A situation where everyone receives proportional to what they give (monetarily) would mean the government was operating like a private company where you pay directly for your products and services. I hope I don't have to explain why that's a bad thing.

 

[Mutant]

A situation where everyone receives proportional to what they give (monetarily) would mean the government was operating like a private company where you pay directly for your products and services. I hope I don't have to explain why that's a bad thing.

You don't have to.

I only expect you to understand that i am for paying the same amount for the same standard service.

A pays 10000$ a year, B pays 15000$ a year.

A and B get exactly the same normal unchangeable service.

OK ?

Not OK in my book.

If A pays 10000$ then B should pay exactly 10000$.

 

[drew_drummer]

You don't have to.

I only expect you to understand that i am for paying the same amount for the same standard service.

A pays 10000$ a year, B pays 15000$ a year.

A and B get exactly the same normal unchangeable service.

OK ?

Not OK in my book.

If A pays 10000$ then B should pay exactly 10000$.

But that isn't what happens in reality, not here in the UK anyway.

 

[Mutant]

But that isn't what happens in reality, not here in the UK anyway.

Yes i know. It is the purest form of regressive tax (which is actually quite popular around the world).

I had to look it up on Wikipedia to see how it is called in english.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump-sum_tax

 

[JeffTD]

You don't have to.

I only expect you to understand that i am for paying the same amount for the same standard service.

A pays 10000$ a year, B pays 15000$ a year.

A and B get exactly the same normal unchangeable service.

OK ?

Not OK in my book.

If A pays 10000$ then B should pay exactly 10000$.

Yes, that would be ideal.

Unfortunately, we live in the real world, and you can't have taxes based on the lowest common denominator. Some people are going to pay more for what they're going to get, and some will pay less. That's just how the world works.

 

[MindMunch]

give me some details on how exactly they want to fix it all.

Oh you can't ? Thats the main problem here.

Here are some:
-No more bailouts to banks.
-Raise of the minimun wage
-Health care
-College education

Now tell me which one you can´t understand that I explain to you.

i know something about it, because the first 1/3 of my life i lived under a communist rule and i know my country and her history.

No you didn´t. Learn the difference between communism and state capitalism.

Bailouts were a necessary evil, but i would do it much better.

No, they´re not. Supporting bailouts is the same as giving an infinite blank check to fail and corrupt at will. Is it a private business? So act like one. You shouldn´t be allowed to keep the profit to yourself but send the bill to the society.

They already pay more than you, getting the same service back from the country.

Public service isn´t a big shop and should not be regulated with market mentality. That´s the whole point of the public service.

By your speech you think that the public bill should be equally divided among all citizens. This way, the top 10%, which has 45% of the total money, would easily pay their share, while the bottom 10%, which has 1% of the total money, would be in prison or dead because it would be impossible for them to pay their share.

Only really stupid people like Adam Carolla can´t realize that the top 10% haven´t reached such a position alone. Can´t see how the bottom of the piramid is what holds them on the top. Actually, can´t even understand what exactly is money and how it flows.

 

[Mutant]

Here are some:
-No more bailouts to banks.
-Raise of the minimun wage
-Health care
-College education

Now tell me which one you can´t understand that I explain to you.

LOL I highly doubt you could explain anything about economy to anyone.

So i will explain it to you, even though i am 99% sure you will not understand anything:

1st. Slows down the economy by making banks more afraid to give money for new investments.
In case of a bank bankrupcy, all customers are left with no money (that is OK only for people that don't have any money in their bank account right now).
Do you really want your bank to go down ?

2nd. Ask any economist what effect this most often has on unemployment rate...
An owner of a small company pays 10000$ / 5 employees = 2000$ every month, suddenly the minimum gets raised to 2500$ , but this doesn't raise his budget magically and he still has 10000$ to pay his employees, so he pays 10000$ / 4 employees - 2500$.
Get it ?
I will omit how the minimum wage raise will also slightly raise inflation because that would be a total black magic to you

3rd. I assume you mean "free health care". Sounds very nice, but USA simply can't afford that right now in the middle of the crisis (at least not without totally reorganizing it first).

4th. Good demand.

No you didn´t. Learn the difference between communism and state capitalism.

LOL

No, they´re not. Supporting bailouts is the same as giving an infinite blank check to fail and corrupt at will. Is it a private business? So act like one. You shouldn´t be allowed to keep the profit to yourself but send the bill to the society.

And supporting total financial system meltdown is good ?

Bailouts literally saved the system from dying (as i said earlier i would do it much better though).

Your boss most probably keeps your payment in a bank, you want that bank to fail, so he can't pay you for your work, your customers most probably keep their money in a bank, you want that bank to fail so they can't afford to pay for your services.

Public service isn´t a big shop and should not be regulated with market mentality. That´s the whole point of the public service.

Yes it is a market.
If you have a choice to live and pay taxes in some lets say 30 best countries to live in... you pick the best offer available.

By your speech you think that the public bill should be equally divided among all citizens. This way, the top 10%, which has 45% of the total money, would easily pay their share, while the bottom 10%, which has 1% of the total money, would be in prison or dead because it would be impossible for them to pay their share.

I can think of a fair system that would make it possible for the lowest class to pay and still live quite comfortably, but explaining it here would take too long.

Can´t see how the bottom of the piramid is what holds them on the top.

Exactly.
Most successful people want the bottom to earn enough to be able to afford their products and services.
Lets look at one simple example: A filthy and evil 1%er owns a computer factory, his computers cost 1000$, i bet you my head that he wants as many people to be able to buy his computers as possible and that he doesn't want to find himself in a place that has only very poor people who would rather not die of hunger than buy his products.
See ?
Most of the top earning people want a stable, predictable and good economy.

 

[midget donkeys]

As much as my better judgment is telling me not to I am going to ask for some serious advice here.

Let’s just say I become a real supporter of OWS (and can push back my desire for my very own pony) for just a minute.

So what am I supposed to do? I mean specifically what actions should I take and how will these actions result in the changes that the OWS desire.

Take universal higher education or any other demand. How does OWS propose to bring this about? How can I help bring this about? Stuff like that.

And I promise not to mock your responses (though it pains me greatly).

 

[Mutant]

I think the west way would be to change the movement from the inside, to gain peoples hearts and minds, to offer them an alternative.

They say they have no leadership, but that is not true - the one controlling the webpage has a real power there.

Win people who are close to him and you will be able to put the whole movement on the right track.

Free (or very cheap), subsidized education works in many countries (including mine), so all you need to do is some research and copy copy copy



btw. Today was my gym/shopping/correctingpeoplewhoarewrongontheweb day, but tomorrow i will want to do some work (how nice to be self employed), so no more entertainment from me here in this thread

 

[egan.]

I think the best first step regardless of your political desires is to call or visit your representatives and let them know your opinion and justification. You can send an email but much I think -- particularly for national politicians -- the volume of incoming emails is too high for serious consideration. It's not a terrible idea to go for the "big day" protests as a show of solidarity and numbers as well.

Personally I don't think universal free college is a good answer to anything. Not everyone is college material and frankly tradesmen, nurses and skilled labor is still in demand in this country despite suggestions to the contrary. The market is far less supportive of a generic bachelors than ever before so there is no sense in pretending that a bachelors= a job. When I graduated from college I worked at Barnes and Noble for 2 years and there were 2 English MA's and a physics phd on staff....

 

[musickey]

Fuck Corrolla!....yeah thats why people are protesting...all a bunch of entitled pussies.

This country is going to shit in a hurry, and has alot to do with the dirty dollar, and the corporate whores in the highest level of political power who could give a fuck what is best for Americans.

Im afraid that all to soon this qoute will become the OWS slogan
‘Those who make peaceful protest impossible will make violent protest inevitable’ – John F Kennedy

 

[midget donkeys]

Thanks for the responses.

Mutant I am just some normal guy, I don't have the time or resources to hunt down the person that has the most control of OWS and personally influence him.

Egan I actually have written my representative in congress in the past (before OWS). He or rather his office did respond to me eventually. I don't think I influenced him much since he already was raising cane on capitol hill about what I was ticked off about (bombing Libya).

I was just using universal higher education as an example. I agree with what you said about it in general. Not everyone is college material, and many college degrees do not teach any economically useful skills. My wife is a math teacher at a community college and she sees lots of people that just don't have what it takes to graduate.

As for going to a OWS rally. I live in Lexington Kentucky. The paper said there was about a dozen people that showed up outside a bank downtown for a day or something. Most were college students or their professors. I don't see how that accomplished anything. It looked more like an extra curricula activity. Plus I have a job and bills to pay.

 

[drew_drummer]

If we're all in such dire fuckery, all of us one and all... then how come companies are reporting record profits and bonuses to their execs? That doesn't sound like dire fuckery to me.

 

[Mutant]

If we're all in such dire fuckery, all of us one and all... then how come companies are reporting record profits and bonuses to their execs? That doesn't sound like dire fuckery to me.

In the economists forum world, people say that during the current depression, top companies are desperate to keep their best uberwizards who can protect them in these tough times - they are their most valued assets.

Those highly skilled people earn as much mainly because the demand for their work is much (several times) higher than the number of available experienced candidates for the job.

There are even little and sometimes dirty "wars" for these economist geniuses.

Be assured that no company would pay more than they think the job is worth to the company.

 

[MindMunch]

2nd. Ask any economist what effect this most often has on unemployment rate...
An owner of a small company pays 10000$ / 5 employees = 2000$ every month, suddenly the minimum gets raised to 2500$ , but this doesn't raise his budget magically and he still has 10000$ to pay his employees, so he pays 10000$ / 4 employees - 2500$.
Get it ?
I will omit how the minimum wage raise will also slightly raise inflation because that would be a total black magic to you

Yeah, and suddenly, everyone who lives on mininum age has 500 more to inject back on the economy, including this small company. Black magic?

3rd. I assume you mean "free health care". Sounds very nice, but USA simply can't afford that right now in the middle of the crisis (at least not without totally reorganizing it first).

Oh, sure, it only has 160 bi a year to spend on war.

LOL

Joke is on you "i lived under a communist rule" boy.

1st. Slows down the economy by making banks more afraid to give money for new investments.
In case of a bank bankrupcy, all customers are left with no money (that is OK only for people that don't have any money in their bank account right now).
Do you really want your bank to go down ?
(...)
And supporting total financial system meltdown is good ?

Bailouts literally saved the system from dying (as i said earlier i would do it much better though).

Your boss most probably keeps your payment in a bank, you want that bank to fail, so he can't pay you for your work, your customers most probably keep their money in a bank, you want that bank to fail so they can't afford to pay for your services.

Wake up, the system is BUILT to melt down. It is at the very core of capitalism. It is not sustainable. People already proved this more than a hundred years ago. Stop thinking that there´s crisis because someone screwed up. You´re hugged on a sinking boat. You think this is the only way for a human society to organize itself, but it´s not.

It amazes me how can some people live everyday as hostages. Scared to death of banks. Answering to all their ridiculous demands and then dare to say "we do not negotiate with terrorists".

Yes it is a market.
If you have a choice to live and pay taxes in some lets say 30 best countries to live in... you pick the best offer available.

It should not be a market, because market goes after the profit, not the need. Imagine dying from a treatable disease because medicine was too busy getting rich making boner pills, hair loss and weight loss treatments.

I can think of a fair system that would make it possible for the lowest class to pay and still live quite comfortably, but explaining it here would take too long.

PM.

Most successful people want the bottom to earn enough to be able to afford their products and services.
Lets look at one simple example: A filthy and evil 1%er owns a computer factory, his computers cost 1000$, i bet you my head that he wants as many people to be able to buy his computers as possible and that he doesn't want to find himself in a place that has only very poor people who would rather not die of hunger than buy his products.
See ?
Most of the top earning people want a stable, predictable and good economy.

Wrong. The worker who makes the computer isn´t the one who is buying it. He will work to death in China for the company sell the products to other countries at maximum profit. This is basically globalization and it´s going to collapse.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'm not going to argue about things I know nothing about, so I'll leave the economics to the economists.

But this just seems silly to me...

It should not be a market, because market goes after the profit, not the need. Imagine dying from a treatable disease because medicine was too busy getting rich making boner pills, hair loss and weight loss treatments.

Expecting a private company to have anything other than profit as it's objective seems ludicrous to me.

 

[John_C]

You don't have to.

I only expect you to understand that i am for paying the same amount for the same standard service.

A pays 10000$ a year, B pays 15000$ a year.

A and B get exactly the same normal unchangeable service.

OK ?

Not OK in my book.

If A pays 10000$ then B should pay exactly 10000$.

A flat tax on everyone, set by a level that everyone can afford? That's a wonderful idea, if you don't want any roads, healthcare, police, fire service.......
If you tax by what the lowest common denominator can afford then you get $0.00 total tax revenue. If you have a flat tax above the level of the lowest common denominator then you will, quite literally, tax some people to death.

 

[Trevoire520]

This country is going to shit in a hurry, and has alot to do with the dirty dollar, and the corporate whores in the highest level of political power who COULDN'T give a fuck what is best for Americans.

 

[Mutant]

A flat tax on everyone, set by a level that everyone can afford? That's a wonderful idea, if you don't want any roads, healthcare, police, fire service.......
If you tax by what the lowest common denominator can afford then you get $0.00 total tax revenue. If you have a flat tax above the level of the lowest common denominator then you will, quite literally, tax some people to death.

My way is a lot more complicated and i will not go into details here.
I would have to write a small book and i have no reason to put in so much work here.
If you want to get your own idea about how this can be accomplished, you can start researching how tax havens can build roads, offer health care, have police and fire services without collecting any income tax.
That would be a good start, but of course converting that model to a big country like USA would be quite hard and i don't think it would be possible in this century without some SERIOUS technological breakthroughs.
But it is perfectly possible to at least start going in the right direction.