"advanced" metal

genocide roach

DOOOOOOOOOOM
Aug 18, 2002
9,421
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so from time to time i get people asking me what i'm listening to. sometimes they want to check it out. ive got no problem with that. but say i'm listening to negura bunget, i always get the question "this is metal"

so, do you think there are certain levels? like stuff you need to hear to understand the basics before getting into the more advanced stuff. "in order to understand turisas, you need to understand bathory first" kind of thing
~gR~
 
Yes, because the majority of metal newbs only know Children Of Bodom, Alexi Laiho worshipping, Dragonforce, and a ton of Herman Li worshipping. I know what you mean though, as some bands are basic, for example, "just death metal", while other more complex and experimental bands will expand and use more elements in their music. So yeah, I think are different levels of metal. The more complex, advanced bands, are usually the more underground ones that few people know about.
 
To be honest I think these so-called 'levels' is an idea that is completely overrated and more or less is just perception-based. The bottom line is that bands are just bands, a person or group of people making music. Some are better than others, and they all approach music differently. People have this perception that, because a band is popular, automatically their music is more simplistic, lacking depth and feeling, and less 'advanced' than that of a more underground band. In many cases this is definitely true but this idea seems like it is just generally accepted as truth, and especially in black metal it seems that being underground or obscure is in fact a measure of quality. If a band like Negura Bunget achieved mass popularity and appeal then people would be saying the same thing about them as they would a popular band. As a band like Emperor is clearly more 'advanced' than 99% of black metal but many deem them to be accessible because of their accumulated popularity, success, and notoriety.
 
i think a lot of it depends on how many albums they release. Look at Cof, one of the most overrated true (not slipknot) metal bands. Look at how many albums they have. Some of their first ones were burned because they didnt have enough money, but look at them now. They have no problem paying for new albums with how much money they make off the band.
 
I don't think one needs to get into metal through the basics, or through bands that represent the typical sound of a genre. Myself, I got into black metal through Borknagar and Arcturus, who are far from typical black metal bands.

So if someone wants to hear what I'm listening to, and is serious about it, it won't matter to me how far from genre barriers that band is. It's metal, and I believe that any band has the potential to become a gateway band any metal genre, or in most cases, metal in general. I say in most cases because there are certain bands whose music is far too inaccessible to the untrained ear to acquire any interest. But for the most part, any band will do.
 
so from time to time i get people asking me what i'm listening to. sometimes they want to check it out. ive got no problem with that. but say i'm listening to negura bunget, i always get the question "this is metal"

so, do you think there are certain levels? like stuff you need to hear to understand the basics before getting into the more advanced stuff. "in order to understand turisas, you need to understand bathory first" kind of thing
~gR~

Well, yea... It's a pattern. First you start off listening to more accessible stuff, then your taste starts to evolve.
 
^Yeah, I agree, it's kinda like me hearing Chris Barnes old CC vocals for the first time, I didn't like them much, but now I really do, as opposed to me liking his traditional death growl the first time I heard it in Six Feet Under. My first black metal band was Emperor and I got into them without hearing much(and not having any CD's) from Dimmu Borgir or Cradle of Filth, the usual black metal gateway bands and went straight to In The Nightside Eclipse's music. So it basically can be to an extent but not always.
 
To a certain extent I agree and to a certain extent I disagree. I agree that the more obscure metal bands such as Oppressor or Dead Beyond Buried are known my few and are very skilled at playing, but obscure metal bands like Shieldwall or Annwn are quite accessable. I got a friend into Folk Metal when I showed them Shieldwall, even though previously they had listened to stuff like lostprophets *spit* and All American Rejects *spit* *spit*. However Shieldwall is quite an obscure band that few people have heard of... Bottom line is, there is no such thing as levels (as the first Death Metal band I was into was Arkhon Infaustus), just differant ways of getting into a genre.
 
so from time to time i get people asking me what i'm listening to. sometimes they want to check it out. ive got no problem with that. but say i'm listening to negura bunget, i always get the question "this is metal"

so, do you think there are certain levels? like stuff you need to hear to understand the basics before getting into the more advanced stuff. "in order to understand turisas, you need to understand bathory first" kind of thing
~gR~
no, to me there's no point in "understanding" a band. I see bands totally independent from each other. of course in fact they are not, but I believe every band can be enjoyed on its own, no matter how much knowledge or "experience" of metal and other bands you have.
 
Usually "beginners" like the bands with more sugar in it.
For example instead of listening to pure Black Metal or to the old classic bands they will prefer modern melo stuff like Borknagar.
In the beginning you think Transillvanian Hunger is boring because it is just these Tremolo riffs all the time, you prefer "Black Metal Riffs + Folk Elements + Keyboards". Later you realize that the mixed stuff got boring, while you find the atmospheres and nuances in the Darkthrone material.
It's the same as young people drinking Alcopops instead of discovering the nuances of taste in scotch.
 
Discovering music isn't like learning math where you have to systematically grasp certain principles in a discrete sequence before understanding the more complicated stuff. It's art, and anybody can jump in and out of any style or aspect of it at any time and still potentially appreciate it as much as anyone else, albeit with varying interpretations and perceptions. But that's the beauty of it. If we all got into underground metal through the same sequence of bands and styles, we'd be a pretty boring, assembly-line group of folks. So to that extent, I'd say no it doesn't matter.

However, I don't think things really operate on such an open-ended level most of the time. Genocide roach's example of a non-metalhead hearing Negura Bunget and questioning it as actual metal brings up an important point. Most people unfamiliar or new to metal (and this probably applies to most styles, I'm just using metal for the purposes here) go in with certain pre-conceived notions of how it's supposed sound and what's it all about, notions instilled by friends, family, pop culture, etc. These probably include obnoxious power-chord heavy guitar tones and riffs, wanky musicianship and guitar solos, and in-your-face imagery and themes about gore, Satan and the typical type of extreme ideas that would piss off your parents. As a novice to the music, you'd probably first steak out bands who reinforce that kind of perception, and while a band like Negura Bunget is certainly metal, they don't really possess any of these qualities to a strong degree. Rather, they are more like the end product of a genre that evolved through time away from initial influences that were probably more strongly rooted in those pop culture stereotypes. While there's no reason someone not into metal at all couldn't get into a band like them, it could be argued that they may have more difficulty appreciating and understanding the roots of the sound if they're not familiar with bands who may have influenced them like Darkthrone, Burzum, Celtic Frost, etc.
 
i sorta started listenin to hard rock, then kept getting into heavier stuff, if thats what this disscussion is about.

imo people cant jus instantly jump form metalcore into extreme metal