Alternate Picking help needed

bball_1523

bball_1523

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Nov 23, 2003
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*NOTE: I ask that you people please read everything I have written here, thanks.*

I have a variety of alternate picking problems that I have been having for the past 3.5 years that I've been playing guitar. For example, I have a hard time playing smoothly and cleanly while doing simple chromatic exercises at 65 bpm. I will be using 65 bpm chromatics exercise as the main practice routine for the problems that I will describe. First I will describe my problems that I am having, then I will post recent clips of me playing chromatics, and then I am wondering if you guys could offer me detailed and constructive advice.

Before I start describing everything I want to state that I have been playing for 3.5 years, mostly on electric guitar, but recently on both acoustic and electric guitars. I have been practicing chromatics at around 65 bpm for around 2 years and have honestly seen little improvement. I may not have been practicing consistently for my 3.5 years of playing guitar, but I have had my moments of seriously practicing and moments of messing around. I have some anxiety problems so I have a hard time concentrating and relaxing. I am willing to try new things to improve my guitar playing and will not give up until I improve.

What I honestly want to get out of all the advice I receive is being able to apply the right methods that will work well for me and be able to play SMOOTHLY and CLEANLY. You will notice that I bolded and underlined all the smooth and clean words to emphasize how important these two words mean to me in my guitar playing life.

GEAR: Kona K2 Thinbody acoustic/electric guitar, Ibanez GAX70 electric guitar, fender frontman 15 watt practice amp, and a cheap computer to record with.

A) Alternate Picking problems in detail (while playing Chromatics at 65 bpm 16th/8th notes):

Acoustic Guitar Problems:
1) My bicep tenses while I'm sitting down and playing. It tenses more often when I am playing the lower strings (E and A) on any fret.

Electric Guitar Problems:
1) my hand has been feeling a bit weak and too loose. I think it may be because I have been playing my new acoustic guitar way more often than my electric.

BOTH Electric And Acoustic Guitar Problems:
1) my left fretting hand does not feel and sound cleanly and smoothly synchronized with my right picking hand.
2) I cannot play cleanly and smoothly while moving up and down the strings (1-6).
3) when I play 1/4 notes at 65 bpm, I feel too tense and unrelaxed and as a result I cannot play cleanly and smoothly.
4) when holding my pick, my hand sometimes tends to move the pick up and away from the strings, resulting in me not hitting the string at all.
5) when holding my pick, it sometimes slips out of position while picking and especially strumming.
6) my fingers get sweaty and as a result the pick slips
7) I have a hard time muting unwanted string noise from other strings that were fretted beforehand. Sometimes my finger feel like they were stuck to the string with glue, so when I release the note, the string makes excess noise.
8) when I go back down from the 12th fret to the 1st fret, my left hand starts to tense and I can't play cleanly and smoothly, because I have a hard time playing as clean and smooth as going up from 1st to 12th fret.
9) sometimes I accidentally pick other strings while picking and going up from 6th string to the 1st string.
10) I feel as if my fingers are hammering on to each note, especially on the low e string.

B) Playing examples of chromatics at 65 bpm using 8th/16th notes:

NOTE: all examples were played and recorded on Monday 05-31-05; that means the day I have written this thread. Also all examples posted here are in Hifi streaming format, but you may click on the link below to access lofi or download the examples. If the examples will not work, please let me know so I can find another host.

Official Link (please listen to first four examples):
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/guitarpracticeap_music.htm

1) Acoustic Guitar Chromatics at 65 bpm using 8th notes:
- http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=2484814&q=Hi

2) Acoustic Guitar Chromatics at 65 bpm using 16th notes:
- http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=2484828&q=Hi

3) Electric Guitar Chromatics at 65 bpm using 8th notes:
- http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=2484846&q=Hi

4) Electric Guitar Chromatics at 65 bpm using 16th notes:
- http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=2484835&q=Hi

C) Suggestions and Tips on improving alternate picking:

NOTE: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not tell me to just practice a lot and practice slowly. I've heard it a billion times and I will keep that in mind for the rest of my life. I want detailed analysis and suggestions here, not just the simple answer "practice." If you want to tell me that, then I really ask that you please not post in my thread.

*= extremely important

1) What do you guys suggest I do improve my picking efficiently according to my problems? *
2) How do I hold my pick?
3) How do I position my wrist correctly on the bridge?
4) What guitar instructional videos/books/lessons do you suggest?
5) What pick(s) do you guys suggest I use and what size?
6) How do you guys practice alternate picking? How did you start off practicing alternate picking in the first place and how did you improve?
7) How do you guys relax before playing?
8) Anything else you want to add?


THANK YOU!
 
Soundclick refused my connection so I can only make suggestions from what I know.

1) What do you guys suggest I do improve my picking efficiently according to my problems? *

Acoustic - I'm really unsure as to why in particular your arm would tense up for any particular strings, unless it is a large acoustic and it's an effort to keep your arm up whilst playing them, in that case it would make your arm tired and make you feel you have to tense it more to keep it up there.
Electric - Your reason sounds valid so I'd agree with you there. You should perhaps try some hand exercises not involving a guitar to build up the muscle strength. I use stress balls (balls which are supposed to relieve stress as you twirl them in your hand) because all of the fingers are used as well as the muscles in the palm of the hand and some muscles in the forearm, if you use these then make sure to alternate in the direction you twirl them.

2) How do I hold my pick?

There isn't really a specific way to hold your pick, if it's comfortable and it works then use it. Personally I use my thumb, index finger and middle finger to grasp mine, with my thumb covering most of one side of the pick and the tip of my index finger covering most of the other side, the smallest knuckle of my middle finger is used to support the pick. You could even try without a pick, some people prefer this.

3) How do I position my wrist correctly on the bridge?

I rest the side of my palm on the bridge, as if in a palm muting position. This gives my hand stability, I keep my wrist in the same place and move my hand to pick the strings.

4) What guitar instructional videos/books/lessons do you suggest?

The Michael Romeo instructional guitar video has some great things on there which help to build strength and speed in both picking and fretting hand. (If you don't have it I'll send you it if you like). Paul Gilbert also has some very helpful instructional videos. I'd reccommend getting a guitar tutor, make sure you tell them your problems and if you still feel as if you are making no progress, tell them to change their methods or get another teacher.

5) What pick(s) do you guys suggest I use and what size?

This again is a matter of what the person prefers. You mentioned your hands sweat and the pick slips out of your hand, the same happens to me! Well I use a Jim Dunlop 1.14mm nylon plectrum (glows in the dark too) mainly for the reason that I prefer thick plectrums, but also because it has grips on both sides which help prevent it slipping out of my hand.

6) How do you guys practice alternate picking? How did you start off practicing alternate picking in the first place and how did you improve?

I sometimes go through some simple blues scales or some licks. I reccommend learning Vengeance by Yngwie Malmsteen as that has some great alternate picking stuff and there's also a Children of Bodom riff which is great for alternate picking too in the intro of Lake Bodom. I have tablature for both if you'd like them. As I've said though, string skipping is very good for alternate picking, the introduction to Damnation Game uses it.
I started off practising alternate picking when I realised I could only play Master of Puppets in all downstrokes for so long before my arm nearly fell off, I started to improve it by learning simple songs which use it such as Time of Your Life by Green Day and Street Spirit (Fade Out) by Radiohead.
I improved further when I saw a video of Eddie Van Halen using tremolo picking, that took me a couple of weeks to master.

7) How do you guys relax before playing?

I don't force myself to play, so whenever I play it's because I want to and so I don't feel stressed and tense. Although if it's infront of people I get stage fright, which I need help with myself!

8) Anything else you want to add?

Don't be afraid to try things which you may think are totally out of your ability, try them anyway and get as good as you can with them. Challenge brings improvement. Also, good luck! :)
 
First off, and please don't take this the wrong way, but those examples were boring to listen to. I can only imagine what it was like for you to play them. So, first suggestion - play something interesting that gets your heart rate slightly racing because you're having fun rather than just plodding through an exercise.

I have a couple exercises I have posted before for alternate picking. I think they're pretty fun, though one is a more intense exercise rather than anythign musical.

To answer your questions, I think the first thing you need to do, based on your comment about your biceps tightening up, is to relax. Others have told you to start slow, and that's usually their intention - to get you to relax. Then, try to play things as fast as you can, even if you have to put down the metronome. Just rip through it. That will help your muscle memory and coordination develop. Then you may find when you go back to your metronome study that you can add a few BPM.

I hold my pick so a very minimal amount is left sticking out. My favorite picks are D'Andrea Delrins, 1.2mm. I also like the Ibanez Steve Vai picks, if you can find them (I think zzounds.com sells them).

Look for Paul Gilbert instructionals. He's the king of picking. Also, Petrucci's Rock Discipline has a few excellent exercises to improve both picking (alternate and sweeping/economy) and legato playing as well.

My all-time best exercise for developing pick coordination with left-hand fingering? It's chromatics, but played laterally on the neck. Start 1-2-3-4 on the high E, then shift up a fret to play 2-3-4-5, shift up again and so on until you get to 19-20-21-22. Then go backwards, 22-21-20-19, 21-20-19-18, etc. until you get to 4-3-2-1. Then shift to the B string and do the same thing, then the G string and so on to the low E. Then start over on the high E string, but now you're going to incorporate the B string as well by playing 1(E)-2(B)-3(E)-4(B). Obviously, use alternate picking across the strings. Go up and down the neck, then do the B and G strings. Complete all strings. Then start doing high E and G strings, etc., followed with high E and D, high E and A, high E and low E. It gets pretty intense after awhile.

As for other questions, I think you need to find what is comfortable to you as far as how you rest your wrist on the bridge, etc. For relaxing techniques, again, Petrucci's video goes over plenty of warm-up exercises and even calisthenics.

Feel free to contact me directly if you have questions or would like more insight.
 
the chromatic examples I've been playing are boring indeed. I don't know why I still stick to them! haha Maybe that's why I tense up because I get bored?

Like I said earlier I have a hard time relaxation especially if I hear far too many little mistakes in my playing. I also have been having anxiety problems to the point of minor panic attacks so that bothers me as well as I think too much when I do things such as playing guitar.

I use a Dunlop Tortex 1 mm pick by the way and it works well on acoustic for strumming, but it feels weird when I use it on the electric so I switch to a dunlop big stubby 2 mm for the electric guitar.

I have been looking at a Gilbert's Intense Rock exercises (the 1st two) and Petrucci's string skipping Alternate picking exercises. Gilbert's exercises have been a bit easier, but I still get frustrated because I have a hard time picking smoothly and cleanly when I got faster than 8th notes at 65bpm, and when I reach the upper frets, my fingers being so small, I have a hard time hitting the notes cleanly without hitting other strings/notes. For the Petrucci rock discipline video, I start to tense up at times when I'm doing his exercises, even if I go slow. I can't feel control of my wrist that much while doing Petrucci's exercise.
 
You know how when you work out at the gym, they always tell you to push your limits, do 3 reps at the end at the max weight you can do. You're playing too slowly. On the Petrucci video he suggests on one riff to try it faster than you can manage for a while and then slowing down to the max speed you can cleanly play at will feel a lot easier. Press your limits!

Also, what kind of pick do you use? getting a consistent sound out of a thin pick can be really hard. Use jazz picks for the MOST accuracy, get the same brand MJR uses.
 
SyXified said:
You know how when you work out at the gym, they always tell you to push your limits, do 3 reps at the end at the max weight you can do. You're playing too slowly. On the Petrucci video he suggests on one riff to try it faster than you can manage for a while and then slowing down to the max speed you can cleanly play at will feel a lot easier. Press your limits!

Also, what kind of pick do you use? getting a consistent sound out of a thin pick can be really hard. Use jazz picks for the MOST accuracy, get the same brand MJR uses.
Click to expand...

good idea. My problem is I feel unmotivated most of the time to even practice. So when I start practicing I feel so low about my guitar self-esteem that I don't even try hard, just do one or two exercises a few times then quit and/or jam for a while and then get nowhere. I've been stuck around 65-70 bpm for 2 years and I feel so overwhelmed with too many exercises and methods to learn. I just wanna improve my alt. picking for now and I don't know how to achieve that, no matter what I read and hear from people.

I'll try the max speed thing you mentioned, but when I start to play sloppy I just give up and not even care. I get frustrated.
 
what i did for practice was to start learning some malmsteen songs like trilogy suite and far beyond the sun, they helped loads. Also I used one of those hand work out things for awhile and they do help alot.
but i have a slight problem of my own, when picking I anchor my hand in the palm muting position as mentioned before but when i move my hand to reach the higher strings it rubs on the strings and makes some extra noise. I have this problem when I sweep too(moreso then the picking cause you can really hear it then lol) Is it possibly just my cheap ass guitar? too much gain? I got it running through a spider 2 15 watt on the metal channel with the drive half way up and my tube screamer cranked to max. I dont know lol it bothers the hell out of me(the extra noise).
 
anyone here got shitloads of exercises on guitar pro? if so.. add me on msn.. I'm bored to death with the same exercises over and over every single day...
 
seed2003 said:
what i did for practice was to start learning some malmsteen songs like trilogy suite and far beyond the sun, they helped loads. Also I used one of those hand work out things for awhile and they do help alot.
but i have a slight problem of my own, when picking I anchor my hand in the palm muting position as mentioned before but when i move my hand to reach the higher strings it rubs on the strings and makes some extra noise. I have this problem when I sweep too(moreso then the picking cause you can really hear it then lol) Is it possibly just my cheap ass guitar? too much gain? I got it running through a spider 2 15 watt on the metal channel with the drive half way up and my tube screamer cranked to max. I dont know lol it bothers the hell out of me(the extra noise).
Click to expand...

I built a LOT of my speed on learning Malmsteen songs as well. I first built basic speed on Metallica songs. They are very basic and straightforward and since Kirk is just basically all about scale patterns you learn a lot of ways to move around. When I really started getting fast, I was tackling
1. Malmsteen - Far Beyond the Sun
2. Malmsteen - Black Star
3. Malmsteen - I'll See the Light Tonight
4. Steve Vai - Juice
5. Steve Vai - Die to Live

These really got my chops up and give you a lot of ideas to work with.

In terms of your problems with noise, it sounds like it probably does have a lot to do with your amp. Reducing gain helps a ton and Line 6 is notorious for that huge buzzy gain sound. I find the Peavy 5150 (high gain but little reverb) is the best for having a full sound but not having much string noise.

If you anchor your hand that's fine, but you should be moving your thumb and forefinger around, not your entire hand when moving up strings. Sweeping clearnly is ALL practice, you sort of roll your muted hand to mute everything but the string you are on.
 
thanx, ill work on that stuff lol
and i found out something my guitar somehow ended up 2 steps low and i usuallllyyy only have it one hehe cleaned up alot of stuff right there...better start using my tuner more lol
anyway thanx again for the help
 
SyXified said:
I built a LOT of my speed on learning Malmsteen songs as well. I first built basic speed on Metallica songs. They are very basic and straightforward and since Kirk is just basically all about scale patterns you learn a lot of ways to move around. When I really started getting fast, I was tackling
1. Malmsteen - Far Beyond the Sun
2. Malmsteen - Black Star
3. Malmsteen - I'll See the Light Tonight
4. Steve Vai - Juice
5. Steve Vai - Die to Live

These really got my chops up and give you a lot of ideas to work with.

In terms of your problems with noise, it sounds like it probably does have a lot to do with your amp. Reducing gain helps a ton and Line 6 is notorious for that huge buzzy gain sound. I find the Peavy 5150 (high gain but little reverb) is the best for having a full sound but not having much string noise.

If you anchor your hand that's fine, but you should be moving your thumb and forefinger around, not your entire hand when moving up strings. Sweeping clearnly is ALL practice, you sort of roll your muted hand to mute everything but the string you are on.
Click to expand...

How do you practice songs usually? How much do you spend on practicing one riff or lick? I have a hard time covering songs, even the basic metallica songs... I guess I just don't have a lot of motivation to practice, I just pickup the guitar and try to get the song played, but without much practice.

Do you use lessons/exercises more or songs to build your picking?
 
bball_1523 said:
How do you practice songs usually? How much do you spend on practicing one riff or lick? I have a hard time covering songs, even the basic metallica songs... I guess I just don't have a lot of motivation to practice, I just pickup the guitar and try to get the song played, but without much practice.

Do you use lessons/exercises more or songs to build your picking?
Click to expand...

you need to spend some hard time on tricky riffs, ive always been obsessed with learning cool sounding riffs. I spent countless days learning fight fire with fire and even long to play the first fast run in far beyond the sun. You need to put in the time to get results :D
 
This exercise is pretty fun for developing alternate picking.

|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------16----17-16-19-17-20-|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------15----17-15-18-17----18----------------|
|----------------------------------------------13----14-13-16-14-17-16----17----------------------------------|
|----------------------------12----14-12-15-14----15----------------------------------------------------------|
|----11----12-11-14-12-15-14----15----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|-12----13----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 
I'm in a very similar position to you. I always find faults in my technique, although I don't have a problem with relaxing which is probably why I can pick at around 80 bpm with 16th notes. I also lack motivation when it comes to practicing. If it's not already been suggested, I recommend you checking out Shawn Lane's instructional videos - Power Licks and Power Solos.
 
what you really need to do is break down the mechanics and instill them in your brain before you go on any further. A lot of the stuff guys are reccomending (romeo's video, lane's video, etc.) are way out of your league at this point.

A great book that i would STRONGLY reccomend you invest in is "speed mechanics for lead guitar" by troy stetina. He breaks down both the left hand and right hand mechanics right down to the tiny details. This book helped me out immensely when i was starting out, i would reccomend it to everyone in a similar situation. WHEN you get it, make sure you can play each excercise cleanly and accurately before moving on to the next. The most important thing is to take it slow an dplay at a COMFORTABLE speed............whether it be whole notes at 1 bpm or sixteenths at 100 bpm, or more, or less............take it at a speed thats comfortable, play it at that speed perfectly about 10 times or until you feel like you have mastered it and move it up about 5 bpm and repeat the process.

I honestly think you will overcome this simpliy because of your willingness to learn, it takes a considerable amount of humbleness to come out and ask for help in the way you did, its clear that you are willing to do anything to improve. That willingness is what spawns great players. Good luck!
 
oh one more thing. My stupid tuner doesn't show me how to tune down a whole step (tune down D)

I really want it tuned that way. Help anyone?
 
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