Always The Rhythm Guitars

[Adji]

New member here, keep checking back from time to time and reading the Clayman thread, the production on that album is incredible! I also really enjoy the boobs thread

Anyway, as I'm sure you all know, the rhythm tracks are what really make or break a guitar driven record and my rhythm tracks suck!

I don't know what it is, obviously I am just not experienced enough, but they plain suck.

IMO, at least, I can get at least decent sounds for other elements like drums, lead guitars, vocals, and even bass that isn't TOO bad (isn't too great either) but the rhythm guitars don't cut it.

I think one problem is definitely volume, I just can't get the power valves working recording at home.

Anyway, I am recording an album of instrumental stuff, mainly rock and progressive metal stuff and so the rhythm tracks are very important. Are there any good threads that exist on here about recording rhythm parts at low volumes that still sound good? I accept I am unlikely to get GREAT results, but good would be nice.

Adam

 

[guitarguru777]

Welcome to the forum

90% of the power of rhythm guitars comes from 3 thing

Tight Playing
Bass Guitar
Panning

If your playing isnt tight no matter what you do your rhythm guitar tracks wont sound huge. Bass guitar carries a shit ton of power for your rhythm guitar tracks, so if you bass tracks are lacking your guitars will be as well.

If you post some clips its usually a bit more helpful

What are you using for guitars?
Whats your signal chain?
What type of guitar / pickups?

 

[drew_drummer]

I recognise that username

Yeah Adji... it's about a few things as far as the amp goes:

1. Get it cranked to a reasonable level where the power-tubes are cooking.

2. Get the preamp to where it sounds like a good live tone... then back the gain off a little.

3. Use more mids than you think you need.

4. Try dialing in the amp whilst listening to it on headphones - not in the room. This will give you a good idea of what it will sound like recorded.

As far as micing it up goes:

1. Start with one mic - SM57 is a good bet.

2. If you've got a looping pedal, it would be very useful to loop a riff that you're intending to record. Put it into the amp. Whilst it's looping back, dial in your amp tone, whilst having the SM57 as central to the cap and as close to the grill cloth as you can get.

3. Once you've actually dialed in the amp. You can experiment with mic placement. With the loop still playing and still listening on headphones, move the microphone around the speaker area until you find a tone you like.

4. Record a sample clip and double track it tightly - ie... grab your guitar, turn on the loop, and record a riff to a click twice. Hard pan them left and right. Now listen back through your speakers - not headphones.

If it sounds like ass... it could be where the microphone is. It could be reflections from the room. It could be the amp not dialed in correctly. Or it could be a combination of these types of things.

One thing I do when I'm at home to kill reflections AND to kill volume (to save my neighbours ears!) is I throw three blankets over my cab. Now some people hate this, they say it deadens the sound... but I quite like the sound tbh. YMMV.

If you're who I think you are, you've got some good gear... there isn't anything stopping you from getting a great rhythm tone other than knowledge and practice. Give us a shout with some more info and we can all go more in-depth.

 

[Adji]

Cheers guys!

TNBD! Your band is great!

Okay signal path for rhythm.

Guitar > Suhr S4 w/ Dimarzio Andy Timmons Pickup
Amp > Hughes and Kettner Trilogy (scaled to 50 watts).
> Preamp Valves - EHX 12ax7s (Gold Series)
> Power Amp Valves - Winged Cs (EL34s)
Cab > H&K VC412A (Celestion Greenbacks)
Mic > SM57

Interface > TASCAM US-1641
DAW > ACID Pro 7 (say what you want I love it)

That's it, I try to keep it simple. Sometimes I also try boosting with the old 808 trick of no gain, full volume.

I am fairly confident the problem is probably a mix of rushed playing (I only spent a few days on the rhythm tracks, this is usually enough for rock stuff, but obviously isn't for metal) and possibly too much gain? As well as mic positioning?

Now, I am only 22 so not the most experienced person in the world but I do have SOME experience recording both in my home and at the studios at university where I co-produced and co-mixed a couple of tracks that were released on the uni record label.

Here is a sample of one of the tracks I am really struggling with, the rhythm just has no bite despite trying all of the 'classic' EQ tricks and tips.

http://soundcloud.com/ocean-room-records/somewhere-in-time-sample

I don't mind having to do all the rhythm tracks again if necessary, I just want the album to be the best it can be!

 

[Adji]

I recognise that username

Yeah Adji... it's about a few things as far as the amp goes:

1. Get it cranked to a reasonable level where the power-tubes are cooking.

2. Get the preamp to where it sounds like a good live tone... then back the gain off a little.

3. Use more mids than you think you need.

4. Try dialing in the amp whilst listening to it on headphones - not in the room. This will give you a good idea of what it will sound like recorded.

As far as micing it up goes:

1. Start with one mic - SM57 is a good bet.

2. If you've got a looping pedal, it would be very useful to loop a riff that you're intending to record. Put it into the amp. Whilst it's looping back, dial in your amp tone, whilst having the SM57 as central to the cap and as close to the grill cloth as you can get.

3. Once you've actually dialed in the amp. You can experiment with mic placement. With the loop still playing and still listening on headphones, move the microphone around the speaker area until you find a tone you like.

4. Record a sample clip and double track it tightly - ie... grab your guitar, turn on the loop, and record a riff to a click twice. Hard pan them left and right. Now listen back through your speakers - not headphones.

If it sounds like ass... it could be where the microphone is. It could be reflections from the room. It could be the amp not dialed in correctly. Or it could be a combination of these types of things.

One thing I do when I'm at home to kill reflections AND to kill volume (to save my neighbours ears!) is I throw three blankets over my cab. Now some people hate this, they say it deadens the sound... but I quite like the sound tbh. YMMV.

If you're who I think you are, you've got some good gear... there isn't anything stopping you from getting a great rhythm tone other than knowledge and practice. Give us a shout with some more info and we can all go more in-depth.

Yo dude, are you on the MLF yeah? Sorry I forgotten your name

The room where the amp is is a dead room, hardly any reflections. The walls are totally lined with quilts and carpet, not soundproof, but it stops the reflections.

 

[drew_drummer]

Aye Amberience over there.. drew_drummer here. Drew most places actually, lulz.

Your tone isn't too bad I don't think. How many tracks for the rhythm have you got?

 

[Adji]

Aye Amberience over there.. drew_drummer here. Drew most places actually, lulz.

Your tone isn't too bad I don't think. How many tracks for the rhythm have you got?

Aye thats right! I thought you were a guitar player? What gives? lol.

There is just one track either side panned hard left and hard right.

Okay maybe the tone isn't the worst piece of shit ever, but its far from being good and I really want this album to be good!

 

[drew_drummer]

I play drums, bass, keys, and guitar

I'd start with doing quad-tracking. The lines you're playing sound like they're chock full of single notes. You can beef those riffs up by recording the riff tightly, four times. Pan two 100% left/right, and the other two 80% left/right. That'll give you a good start.

Try slightly changing the tone for two of the takes too.

 

[ahjteam]

The clips sound good, but depends entirely what you are after. Now it's more like Steve Vai type classic hard rock guitars than modern heavy metal guitars that you constantly hear on this board. Quick way to get there is to switch to a Les Paul or other heavy type guitar, drop the tuning down to say C standard or even lower and then playing the rhythm stuff with powerchords on the lowest 3 strings, use fucking thick strings, heavy pick and active pickups like EMG81 on the bridge. Ampwise you can't go wrong with 5150 and/or Mesa Dual Rectifier