am i the only one who finds such stuff funny?

if you listen to what he says in interviews, "master percussionist" Fenriz seems to indicate that he thought (at some point, possibly when recording the old Darkthrone albums) that the drumming wasn't really important at all and it was mostly there to keep the beat and sound evil or something.
 
Armageddon's Child said:
Seems fairly obvious to me...
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you know you look really silly when you try to defend that bullshit.

im a naval architect and i was taught the doppler effect in my second year at university in fluid mechanics. i dont know if he/she is your friend but prozac made that up just to seem sophisticated...just like on pretty much everything he/she says on that site.

apparently, there are still idiots on this forum who give a shit about what you say, so why lose them, too, for the sake of standing up for...errr...a comrade? :erk:
 
The Doppler Effect is sound in motion. As a listener is approached by (or approaches) a source of sound, the shorter distance between the sound and the listener causes listener to hear the sound at a higher frequency (pitch), and a lower frequency as the source of the sound moves farther away. In practice, there is a second effect. As the source of sound draws nearer, less of the energy of the waves is dissipated as they pass through the medium, resulting in a higher amplitude and the perception of increasing volume (decreasing as the source grows more distant).

DarkThrone simulates this effect phrasally by increasing pitch and volume through the first half of a phrase, then decreasing both through the second half, creating the illusion of physical motion. Calling it a "Doppler Effect" is a perfect metaphorical shorthand for the process, and anyone with a brain should have been able to figure out the meaning of the phrase without needing to have it explained. It is a literary device, not a literal description of the physics of music.

Do you throw a fit when someone calls music 'melancholy'? After all, sound doesn't actually have feelings... :rolleyes:
 
Armageddon's Child said:
The Doppler Effect is sound in motion. As a listener is approached by (or approaches) a source of sound, the shorter distance between the sound and the listener causes listener to hear the sound at a higher frequency (pitch), and a lower frequency as the source of the sound moves farther away. In practice, there is a second effect. As the source of sound draws nearer, less of the energy of the waves is dissipated as they pass through the medium, resulting in a higher amplitude and the perception of increasing volume (decreasing as the source grows more distant).
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pretty accurate.

Armageddon's Child said:
DarkThrone simulates this effect phrasally by increasing pitch and volume through the first half of a phrase, then decreasing both through the second half, creating the illusion of physical motion.
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are you sure you said the same thing as prozac?

"Over that guitars layer melody in single notes and contrapuntal dissonant patterns, creating a void of extreme ambiguity that demonstrates the doppler effect in music by approaching beat centers with a rising or descending but paradoxically oppositional melody"

even if you did, it's all bullshit all the same. i've been listening to the cd once again for the last 15 minutes to hear this "doppler effect" but i couldnt find it. maybe you can point out to a specific song?

hahhaha but then again, seriously...i still have a feeling youre joking all this while...even if you did explain "the doppler effect in music" as prozac puts it, what about "paradoxically oppositional melodies"?

gosh, it's a great black metal album...among my favorites. please dont ruin it in my eyes for such bs
 
Armageddon's Child said:
The Doppler Effect is sound in motion. As a listener is approached by (or approaches) a source of sound, the shorter distance between the sound and the listener causes listener to hear the sound at a higher frequency (pitch), and a lower frequency as the source of the sound moves farther away. In practice, there is a second effect. As the source of sound draws nearer, less of the energy of the waves is dissipated as they pass through the medium, resulting in a higher amplitude and the perception of increasing volume (decreasing as the source grows more distant).

DarkThrone simulates this effect phrasally by increasing pitch and volume through the first half of a phrase, then decreasing both through the second half, creating the illusion of physical motion. Calling it a "Doppler Effect" is a perfect metaphorical shorthand for the process, and anyone with a brain should have been able to figure out the meaning of the phrase without needing to have it explained. It is a literary device, not a literal description of the physics of music.

Do you throw a fit when someone calls music 'melancholy'? After all, sound doesn't actually have feelings... :rolleyes:
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Okay, but I don't remember getting the feeling that they were increasing then decreasing pitch and volume phrasally when I listened to Transilvanian Hunger. My impression from reading the review is that the guy way over-analyzed everything about the album for the purpose of making it seem way better than it is. When people run out of things to criticize, they start either making things up or over-analyzing. The same can be said for someone trying to make something seem good. If a book is written that isn't excellent but isn't terrible, and someone writing a review wants to make the readers think it's the best book ever, they might start coming up with themes and metaphors that the author didn't intentionally use. That doesn't change the quality of the book.
 
Almost every song on the album uses some variation of the 'Doppler' phrase construction, but it's probably easiest to pick out in "As Flittermice as Satan Spys", where a four note guitar melody which crescendos toward a (high pitched) peak before backing off as it heads back down the scale toward its repetition is set against a two note bass counterpoint dissonant to the melody line at resolution (but consonant during the ascent). Doppler Effect, ambiguity and paradox, all packed into a single three second phrase...
 
LightningLixxx said:
Okay, but I don't remember getting the feeling that they were increasing then decreasing pitch and volume phrasally when I listened to Transilvanian Hunger. My impression from reading the review is that the guy way over-analyzed everything about the album for the purpose of making it seem way better than it is. When people run out of things to criticize, they start either making things up or over-analyzing. The same can be said for someone trying to make something seem good. If a book is written that isn't excellent but isn't terrible, and someone writing a review wants to make the readers think it's the best book ever, they might start coming up with themes and metaphors that the author didn't intentionally use. That doesn't change the quality of the book.
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Alternately, your own inability to grasp themes that other reviewers catch doesn't necessarily mean they aren't there.

In this case, it's pretty obvious to anyone with ears, if they've been alerted to listen for it.
 
so is this technique used on A Blaze in the Northern Sky too? its the only one i've got, so if it contains this Doppler stuff i'd like to investigate further
 
My favorite of the limited amount of reviews I've read on there is the Immolation page, just look at some of this :lol:

"A unique fragment of the New York Death Metal sound was birthed with the first album from Immolation which wrought from complex and specific structures enwrapping rough chromatic death metal riffing an emphasis on the content of each song. Thunderous hollow vocals and exact percussion frame the rushing chaos of intricate riffs and extended thematic conclusions which synergize to form sensibility."

"Unabashed in their desire for speed songs undulate within a theatre of growth and change, setting each scenario in listener consciousness with the symbolism of shaping and tone expressed in nihilistic but universally human riffing, and in this drama of the conflict within space is given to differing speeds including a raging blast. To the credit of the percussion department, beats incorporate more than one texture and use balanced internal emphasis to conserve momentum."
 
Demilich said:
so is this technique used on A Blaze in the Northern Sky too? its the only one i've got, so if it contains this Doppler stuff i'd like to investigate further
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Yeah - the effect is a little less sustained at times due to the death metal-ish structures that tend to break up the songs more decisively than in later work (the instrusion of more Hellhammer-style riffs than in the two albums to follow also tends to mitigate against it). Check out the early parts of "Kathaarian Life Cod" though, you'll hear a pretty clear use of the technique (though it makes numerous appearances).
 
If we want to talk about the Doppler effect in music, what about the use of the Leslie speaker and similar rotating speakers to simulate a sound source constantly changing in distance from the listener? Examples include the vocals on Black Sabbath's "Spirit Caravan" and the Beatles "Tomorrow Never Knows", guitars on Pink Floyd's "Any Colour You Like" and on numerous recordings of the Hammond organ. Is this related to what we're talking about here?
 
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