... and you think just dobbermann's and pitbull's are bastards... read this

[Mago]

Police dogs are a confusing matter because they are trained more than your average dog, yet they seem to have a higher rate of attacks. There is a simple reason for this though. While dogs have been genetically designed through thousands of years of selective breeding, they still aren't very smart. You cannot train a dog that a certain group of humans are ok to attack but other humans are not. Yes the German Shepard Police dogs are trained to kill and they are let to believe that attacking someone is ok. Regardless of their training the whole concept is confusing to them and when that moment happens where they can't see that thin line, an accidental attack will then pursue. I say accidental because it was unattended due to the dogs confusion, if anything about a person reminds them of the type of person they would attack in the line of duty, they will attack.

This is why when you are around a K-9 unit the officer will tell you to stay away from the rear doors because someone can provoke the dog in the car, which makes a dangerous situation for the cop when he has to handle the dog. That is how much confidence they have in these dogs even when they are in the car. A dog cannot be trained to only attack certain people and not others, when you train a dog to attack, everyone can and will become a target, including the cop.

although you may have made a point about the thing that it can be confusing and so on, but tbh the rest of your post makes me go


Dunno how they do that at your place, but I'm quite sure that the training and way of using dogs in military and police services works different over here...or at least I hope so.

 

[slashvanyoung]

@ TheWinterSnow: Some of your remarks are not quite generally valid in the way you portrait them:

Police dogs are a confusing matter because they are trained more than your average dog, yet they seem to have a higher rate of attacks.

At least here in Germany, that's simply not true. Dogs that have a Schutzhund training like police or military dogs are statistically proven to react way more strong-nerved than dogs without such a training. The chance of an unwanted attack by a Schutzhund is therefore significantly lower.

So, unless the training in the US and the rest of the world differs vastly, that statement is just not true.

There is a simple reason for this though. While dogs have been genetically designed through thousands of years of selective breeding, they still aren't very smart.

I agree and that's why there is never 100% safety. However, only breeds known to show certain character traits (good trainability, strong bond to the handler, perseverance, protective instinct etc.) are allowed to engage into Schutzhund training for police and military. And only the ones who come out best at the training will be selected to do protective work. Thus reducing the possibility of unwanted attacks.

You cannot train a dog that a certain group of humans are ok to attack but other humans are not.

Exactly because it's hard (not entirely impossible, but hard) to safely differentiate between groups of people for a dog, the whole Schutzhund training is aimed to have the dog differentiate between commandos not people.

Yes the German Shepard Police dogs are trained to kill and they are let to believe that attacking someone is ok.

Sorry, but that line is just complete bullshit. Police dogs, at least here, are absolutely not trained to kill. While it's true that police and military dogs are getting trained to apprehend a target more rigorously instead of being only fixated at a protective training sleeve, they're by no means trained to kill someone. In fact, the dogs are intended to physically attack the target at a last resort and only if he or she flees and the dog master gives the appropriate commando. Instant and unconditional release of the target by commando is a key training procedure.

Regardless of their training the whole concept is confusing to them and when that moment happens where they can't see that thin line, an accidental attack will then pursue. I say accidental because it was unattended due to the dogs confusion, if anything about a person reminds them of the type of person they would attack in the line of duty, they will attack.

See the lines in this colour again, same applies for this statement.

So yeah, unless the training in the US is really all that different, you better check your facts again. Your post is well-worded, but the content...

 

[Chryst Krispies]

I owned a Rottweiler Shepard mix, and he was abused as a puppy by a previous owner, who trained him as a guard dog. My family took him in and he was the most loyal animal ever. He would NEVER hurt one of us. He bit a lot of people that tried fucking with him or that just walked into the house, but I could walk up to and take the bone outta his mouth and he would know better than to bite me. I think the problem is retarded owners, and maybe just dogs with a screw loose.

It was crazy though how much he loved us and didn't like people that weren't welcome in the house. Dog was 135lbs in his prime, and had a diesel bite. He would regularly break chains and shit, and he jumped off our 15 ft deck once, as well as jumped through the window once to chase a coyote. The fall from the window was like 12ft or so...RIGHT THROUGH THE GLASS. I could wrestle with him and we would play fight with each other but he would never ever do damage. He would "play" bite which is what I think most dogs do with each other and it also can serve as a warning, kinda like what sharks do when they bite things to feel out what it is and if it's a threat...lif you came into my house without us letting you in though....SEE YA.

The key was talking him outta the previous owners retarded hands and taking him into a loving family that paid attention to him. You needa train these kinds of dogs to be around people and know that the family is a "pack" and that I am the head of the pack.

I miss him so bad.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

RIP Grizz

 

[Chryst Krispies]

Yeah, I've been REALLY upset about not having him around recently.

 

[slashvanyoung]

Wow, I've never seen a Shepherd - Rottweiler mix looking so bulky. There is a German saying that goes "Wie der Hund, so das Herrchen." ('as the dog, so the owner'). Seems to fit here perfectly.

You must miss him like crazy.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

@slashvanyoung: I very well may be different, the American Police force is a joke to most of the world. Regardless when you have a dog that is not treated as a part of the pack and is only given human stimulation on the force, when their instincts are not scolded and they are given the ability to attack people on command it is a matter of time before they will attack someone unprovoked. Just like children dogs will do things they know they are not supposed to do and even when they are caught will continue to keep doing whatever it is they are doing until the parent physically stops them. I was like that as a child, and I have seen many children do the same, and all of our dogs have done that in their younger stages, our beagle still does. The same problem of confusion if not trained properly can be easily seen in martial arts for kids, and I have seen this first hand. When you teach a kid that it is ok to fight in self defense, the confusion of what exactly is self defense becomes blurred even if they have been completely trained correctly since kids rely more on gut feeling due to their lack of intellect will initiate a physical altercation. They may have been told what is ok and what isn't and they may have completely understood, in the heat of any moment, no matter how significant it could be, they decided to do something that they very well knew they would get in trouble for, but continued to do so until they were physically stopped. This happens with fights in high schools, a fight will break up and they won't stop until staff actually gets in the middle and stops it, these are human we are talking about, more intellect and reason than a dog. There will always be a chance that a dog will decide that the consequences are worth what they are going to do and will do so for as long as they can, and if they have been trained to fight, or attack, you now have that in their possible rules to break, something that they would not even think of if they were trained to accept that human are superior to them in a pack perspective.

And from that German video, if they are so well trained, why is it that when one of the commandos grabs the dog from the guy, the dog turns around and attacks the commando to the point where he has to punch the dog to get him to stop? Regardless of how well any attack dog is trained, just like any human, they can decide that the consequences of their actions is worth what they want to do, and no amount of training of right and wrong will stop any dog at that moment, you just have to hope their rule breaking is something minor like getting into the garbage or lifting their leg in the house, and not mauling someone.

You needa train these kinds of dogs to be around people and know that the family is a "pack" and that I am the head of the pack.

And that is the secret to properly training ANY dog, and the best owners follow those exact words.

 

[Boerboel666]

You obviously did not read my post

Those dogs are bred and trained in Europe as weapons . Malinois as I said before make very poor pets . The dog is so focused on his job and when in that state of drive he may redirect aggression as soon as the dog calms down he is under control . These dogs have been selectively bred and trained from pups to do a job . Very few dogs are able to do what they do and that fact alone means comparing one of these animals to 99% of the dogs out there is inappropriate .

 

[plague_rider]

My G/Fs parents until recently had two German Sheps, and they are great with our son Logan, that being said, she still doesn't leave them in the room with him...

that would be daft... no matter how soft-as-clarts the dogs are...

especially Collie's, they're work dogs, you buy one its most likely 1-2 generations from a working dog...

I know theres a certain amount of "the kid was teasing the dog" but thats just passing the book, you have to respect the nature of dogs... our old Jack Russel Terrier came from a farm, part of a family of JRs, they would often take off like a pack for days on end (rabbitting) before we bought him

 

[kaomao]

Which dog do you want around a kid?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXxINObhjO8

Look what happens to the cop at 00:41 lol he got bite
Anyway impressive video

 

[slashvanyoung]

And from that German video, if they are so well trained, why is it that when one of the commandos grabs the dog from the guy, the dog turns around and attacks the commando to the point where he has to punch the dog to get him to stop? Regardless of how well any attack dog is trained, just like any human, they can decide that the consequences of their actions is worth what they want to do, and no amount of training of right and wrong will stop any dog at that moment, you just have to hope their rule breaking is something minor like getting into the garbage or lifting their leg in the house, and not mauling someone.

You obviously did not read my post

Those dogs are bred and trained in Europe as weapons . Malinois as I said before make very poor pets . The dog is so focused on his job and when in that state of drive he may redirect aggression as soon as the dog calms down he is under control . These dogs have been selectively bred and trained from pups to do a job . Very few dogs are able to do what they do and that fact alone means comparing one of these animals to 99% of the dogs out there is inappropriate .

Exactly and btw this is NOT a video from Germany, but from the French police.

Nobody denies that there's never 100% reliability and safety when dealing with either animals or humans. It's just that this claim, that dogs who get selected to receive (professional!) protective training are more prone to attack, is simply not true. The opposite is the case.

Just like Boerboel said, the dogs in the vid, the Malinois are a special breed who show severe manifestations of some character traits like the hunting instinct. Not nearly comparable to most other shepherd breeds.

In practice, this means that a Malinosis held as a private pet is way more unpredictable than one who received professional training.

The instincts to hunt and protect are more or less severely manifested in every dog and while you'll never be able to completely subdue them, they are a lot more focused with the vast majority of dogs who receive professional training.