Anti Kamelot?

[Pixelherder]

Kamelot was cool. I was totally unfamiliar with the band going into the show, and thought they put on a good set.

Is it me, or is Roy Khan's performance/stage presence reminiscent of Geoff Tate? (Feel free to tell me it's just me. Like I said, I'm going on first impressions here.)

 

[guardian26]

I thought they were great and felt that Roy was pretty good live. I think that their songs are more mellow, and following up Tad Morose and their heavy hittin metal might have confused some people. I like these guys alot, and was happy to get a chance to see them. I just think Roy's voice lends to a softer feel that alot of people were not into. But who cares about the others, as long as I enjoyed it haha

 

[IronPlant]

There was some trash talking about Kamelot along with some other power metal bands going on during this PP5. =/ Some people just get so heavy into the technical side of prog metal they have a hard time getting into anything else.

You really shouldn't let it bother you. Heck they may have been drinking that night and not have meant what they said as much as they came off originally.

 

[LuCinda]

Hey Max,

Where were you sitting? I was sitting in the very back and so were my friends. I personally did not like their set because we all felt that Roy was having serious problems. Do not get me wrong, I love their albums and have been a fan for going on 6 years now. Maybe he had a really off night, my friend said that it looked like he was in physical pain for many of the songs and so did another random person we met on the way to lunch the next day. Sitting in the back gave me a very analytical perspective and I noticed that he couldnt hit any of the high notes and kept pulling the mic away (although it did look like he was doing it accidentally and not on purpose) a bunch of the time during long notes. I really want to see them again because I sincerely think that they can do better than that. ALOT better. Musically, they were tight, Thomas was playing on target as was Casey Glen and Gunter so I cant complain about that. I do think that maybe the addition of a second live rhythm guitarist could beef the sound up a bit but other than that I couldnt complain about the musical section of the group.

Ben

I agree with everything Ben stated here. Also, it was a special treat for me as I got to see Gunter again. VandenPlas is right up there with Kamelot.
Cindy

 

[mtlheart]

Okay...
For The record let me say I like Kamelot a lot. I thought their set was one of the best in the show although maybe Brainstorm was better. It's a toss up really as far as I'm concerned. But I know people who don't like them, and here's the knock on Kamelot from those who don't like them: Khan's Voice.
For many of the diehard "hardcore" metal fans out there Khan's voice is too melodic, i.e. too "wimpy." His critics like their metal lyrics to be gruff or growly, and as far as they're concerned Khan's voice is more suited to a boy-band like Insynch or whatever they're called.
So there it is: the thing that makes Kamelot unique in a vastly over crowded genre is the very thing that gets the band criticized in some circles.

 

[Thor Intrepid]

They were good. Kahn's vocals were not strong or not mixed properly.

That, and he was one leather hat away from the Village People!

I kid! I kid!

 

[JayKeeley]

Some good comments in this thread so far....

For me, it's not just Khan's voice, it's his whole stage persona. Sorry, but it was all just too gay for words. Kamelot are one of the few bands that I'd rather listen to on CD than *see* perform, because I really can't get past the whole 'George Michael' look, with all that skin tight PVC from head to toe. Add the fact that he sang like a croaky 12 year old girl and it leaves you with something that's altogether pretty lame. I'm also not sure why he insisted on moving the mic back and forth from his mouth continuously, causing the volume to fade in and out, and from the backseats it looked really....odd (as you can imagine).

I also agree with the second guitarist idea -- instead they relied too heavily on the keyboard player to provide all the prominent melodies that make the song, so essentially you were left with Khan singing along to a really loud keyboard. At least on the CDs, they multi-track the rhythm guitar to give it that fuller, heavier sound. This was sorely lacking.

I don't agree with people dissing them in the audience though, that's just wrong and ruins it for others. If you don't like, leave the arena and make room for others.

 

[VonSmythe]

They were good. Kahn's vocals were not strong or not mixed properly.

That was the biggest problem that I heard from Kamelot's set. The sound guy, which seemed to be there for them and Edguy, was jacking with the mix the whole time. Up with the guitar, down with the guitar, up with the keys, down with the keys, and so on, including the vocals. Also, in my opinion, the drums were mixed in way too much.

 

[PROGGODDESS]

They were good. Kahn's vocals were not strong or not mixed properly.

That, and he was one leather hat away from the Village People!

I kid! I kid!

Ha, I know there were some pretty ladies backstage around the dressing room for Kamelot. The sound was a problem but not Kamelot's fault.

Julie

 

[enki3600]

I have never seen Kamelot live before, but their live album was quite cherry. They did awesome, and there's no way I'd ever say otherwise of any band that played there unless they pulled some sort of malicious faux pas (like being too drunk and getting sick on stage, or intentionally pissing off the crowd)

I was disappointed with the sound though... as far as vocalists go:
pop stars/rapper < nu metal << death/black < progpower <= god < mathias < roy

And for the entire kamelot set (as well as many of the other sets) I was struggling to hear the vocals. I did notice Roy pulling the mic away, but I just figured that was one way he accented his vocals and the setup just wasn't calibrated right for him. And I have no clue who the female operatic vocals was, but half the time her mic was off and the other half she was BARELY audible. I really wanted her to do more singing, I love mixed vocals.
and OH MY GOD was she gorgeous!

edit:
I thought the fact he looked in agony was going along with the songs. Because he wasn't ALWAYS that way, I thought he was just getting into the music.
I'd disagree with that whole "george michael" thing. That's his thing. and I don't think it's a "george michael" thing. Sure the common thing for metalheads is to have long hair, followed by shaved heads, but there's no real reason you can't develop your own style

 

[janiarctica666]

I have never seen Kamelot live before, but their live album was quite cherry. They did awesome, and there's no way I'd ever say otherwise of any band that played there unless they pulled some sort of malicious faux pas (like being too drunk and getting sick on stage, or intentionally pissing off the crowd)

I was disappointed with the sound though... as far as vocalists go:
pop stars/rapper < nu metal << death/black < progpower <= god < mathias < roy

And for the entire kamelot set (as well as many of the other sets) I was struggling to hear the vocals. I did notice Roy pulling the mic away, but I just figured that was one way he accented his vocals and the setup just wasn't calibrated right for him. And I have no clue who the female operatic vocals was, but half the time her mic was off and the other half she was BARELY audible. I really wanted her to do more singing, I love mixed vocals.
and OH MY GOD was she gorgeous!

edit:
I thought the fact he looked in agony was going along with the songs. Because he wasn't ALWAYS that way, I thought he was just getting into the music.
I'd disagree with that whole "george michael" thing. That's his thing. and I don't think it's a "george michael" thing. Sure the common thing for metalheads is to have long hair, followed by shaved heads, but there's no real reason you can't develop your own style

Khan is GOD, maybe the sound was not as good as should have been. I heard that the soundman was not thier usual one. Also the girl on stage was beautiful and the times I heard her ws great.

SONATA in 2005!

 

[Walter_Langkowski]

Okay...
For The record let me say I like Kamelot a lot. I thought their set was one of the best in the show although maybe Brainstorm was better. It's a toss up really as far as I'm concerned. But I know people who don't like them, and here's the knock on Kamelot from those who don't like them: Khan's Voice.
For many of the diehard "hardcore" metal fans out there Khan's voice is too melodic, i.e. too "wimpy." His critics like their metal lyrics to be gruff or growly, and as far as they're concerned Khan's voice is more suited to a boy-band like Insynch or whatever they're called.
So there it is: the thing that makes Kamelot unique in a vastly over crowded genre is the very thing that gets the band criticized in some circles.

Interesting point. Can't say I agree, but interesting.


However, what you said would make more sense if this was the Milwaukee Metalfest. But, it's the PP festival. Name me one band besides Into Eternity and MAYBE Brainstorm that were overly aggressive vocally. I can't really think of one personally. And based on the previous bands that have played PP, the majority of them have had Melodic Metal singers. This is just how it's been.


If I had to chance a guess, I'd say that they were drinking or drunk like someone else already said.

I mean really, if you like singers in Melodic/Lighter-Styled Metal in the vein of Queensryche, then Jesus...how can you NOT think that Roy Khan is friggin' brilliant?!

Probably just not their cup of tea...

 

[PROGGODDESS]

Interesting point. Can't say I agree, but interesting.


However, what you said would make more sense if this was the Milwaukee Metalfest. But, it's the PP festival. Name me one band besides Into Eternity and MAYBE Brainstorm that were overly aggressive vocally. I can't really think of one personally. And based on the previous bands that have played PP, the majority of them have had Melodic Metal singers. This is just how it's been.


If I had to chance a guess, I'd say that they were drinking or drunk like someone else already said.

I mean really, if you like singers in Melodic/Lighter-Styled Metal in the vein of Queensryche, then Jesus...how can you NOT think that Roy Khan is friggin' brilliant?!

Probably just not their cup of tea...

It does seem like the festival is getting more on the heavy/edgy style bands. I'm sure those few people in the audience were drunk and dont "get" this kind of special music. Walter is right,
if you like singers in Melodic/Lighter-Styled Metal in the vein of Queensryche, then Jesus...how can you NOT think that Roy Khan is friggin' brilliant?!

Julie, silently awaiting the new Kamelot album!

 

[Bryan316]

I can sorta-kinda-sorta explain why Khan pulls the mic away.

Same reason Sir Russell Allen does as well.

In case they crack their voice.

Now follow a bit here... I can understand it, I've done it singing, and it's just random. If you're not perfectly warmed up, or tired, or any iddy biddy reason, you can crack your voice when trying for a higher note. Kinda like, sliding up the fretboard on your guitar hoping to hit exactly the right note, but your finger slips a bit off the string and you gotta grab it again. It happens! Shit does too! So they yank the mic away very quickly, make sure they caught the note without yodeling or coughing or warbling, then bring the mic in for the full strength.

I personally can't stand the sound of it. It's annoying as all fuck, and sometimes, (especially Allen) you don't really catch the note he sang well! But.... breaking your voice and cracking sounds WAAAAY shittier than pulling the mic away.

You'll notice how passionately Khan and Allen sing. They're all from the heart. And they rely on their own mic control to change dynamics and volume, instead of relying on a compressor to squeese the vocals. and when they do shake that mic around, it affects the sound and the feel of their singing. It's a very organic way to sing. BUT.... I'd rather they just belt it out straight into the mic. Nice and loud. That's cuz I'm more of a Hansi Kursh than a Khan. Heh heh.

So... yeah... sometimes the fading and bouncing vocals are distracting. Quite understandable. But it's cuz they don't wanna perform badly and let it slip by. Perfectionists? Perhaps. But damnit, they gotta be to sing the way they sing!


Oh. And yeah, I dig Kamelot. I found out about them in an album review in Hit Parader magazine, saying how The Fourth Legacy is a perfect example of symphonic power metal. Go figure. I listened to some shmuck from Hit Parader's opinion. LOL

 

[mtlheart]

Interesting point. Can't say I agree, but interesting.

However, what you said would make more sense if this was the Milwaukee Metalfest. But, it's the PP festival. Name me one band besides Into Eternity and MAYBE Brainstorm that were overly aggressive vocally. I can't really think of one personally. And based on the previous bands that have played PP, the majority of them have had Melodic Metal singers. This is just how it's been.
If I had to chance a guess, I'd say that they were drinking or drunk like someone else already said.
I mean really, if you like singers in Melodic/Lighter-Styled Metal in the vein of Queensryche, then Jesus...how can you NOT think that Roy Khan is friggin' brilliant?!
Probably just not their cup of tea...

First let me reiterate so as to avoid any confusion on where I stand on this issue: I like Kamelot. I like them a lot, and personally think their show was second best only to Brainstorm. I also agree that none of the other vocalists are "overly agressive" ala Death vox (except the two guys from Into Eternity). But Khan is the only one who sings melodically all the time. Most of the other vocalists can get down growly, hit screamer high notes, and usually hit that melodic mode in the choruses.

High picthed singing and that double base gallop is what makes Power Metal Power Metal. The singing in particular seperates Power from other Speed Metals like Death or Thrash. Into Eternity is being credited as the first to combine Power and Death vox by most sources I've read. So, by default any band at a PP Festival should have a degree of melody and high voices. I agree that it stands to reason that anyone into Power should like Kamelot.

But Khan doesn't have a growly side, and even though he hits high notes, he doesn't really let lose any ear shattering screams. That makes him unappealing to some people. I gave a Power compilation I made to a hardcore Thrasher I work with to check out. Of all he heard like Helloween, Gamma Ray, Stratovarious, HammerFall, Rage, Rhapsody, Narnia, Avalon and Kamelot, he was most critical of Khan's singing. He said something to the effect of "If you took the music away, it could be Donnie Osmond."

Now that's his opinion not mine. But I understand what he was saying. Khan's singing is just too polished for some metal fans' taste, even if they would attend PP for the other bands.

Nevertheless, bashing a band during their set is just poor etiquette. Take it out in the hall.

 

[JayKeeley]

I gave a Power compilation I made to a hardcore Thrasher I work with to check out. Of all he heard like Helloween, Gamma Ray, Stratovarious, HammerFall, Rage, Rhapsody, Narnia, Avalon and Kamelot, he was most critical of Khan's singing. He said something to the effect of "If you took the music away, it could be Donnie Osmond."

Holy shit, that is exactly it.

 

[jkohn]

mtlheart you may have a point to a certain extent but personally I think Khan's voice fits Kamelot's music perfectly; I've never been listening to a Kamelot CD and thought to myself "gee, this song would have been better if he had put some growls in there".

IMHO not every power metal singer has to hit a bunch of super-high notes or go all growly and agressive just because that's what a lot a power metal singers do. In fact I wish some of them wouldn't, because there are some singers that can make it work, and some that IMHO can't. To me there's much more to judging how good a singer is than just how high he can go. There are quite a few power metal bands that I don't like because the singing is just cliched and unoriginal (no I'm not going to name names). When I look at some of my favorite power/prog bands they all have singers with distinctive voices (Blind Guardian, Kamelot, Evergrey, PoS, etc).

To each his own I guess. One thing I definitely agree with that's been brought up in this thread. You don't have to like every single band in the lineup, in fact it would be surprising if you did considering there are 10 of them and a least a couple are usually "corner" cases. But to be rude during a set is just pathetic. If you don't like it either keep it to yourself or go do something else.

 

[Daybreaker]

e ask micLet me also state the fact that I am a HUGE Kamelot fan, have been for years. I think Khan is one of, if not THE biggest reason that these guys are as "big" as they are (that and Thomas writes great songs). But I still cannot change the way I feel about the performance which is that Khan seemed really off that night. That's just me, I dont want to try to force my opinion down peoples throats, but I do want to get across that I wasnt "jealous" or drunk or anything like that, much less someone who didnt even like them in the first place. Repeat, Im not trying to crap on Kamelot or say that Roy is a bad singer because he isnt. I really want to see them again and compare shows but unless I go to Europe I doubt thisll happen anytime soon.

Ben

 

[13ShadesofGray]

I can sorta-kinda-sorta explain why Khan pulls the mic away.

Same reason Sir Russell Allen does as well.

In case they crack their voice.

Sorry, my friend, but I must disagree with your opinion here. My own take, and this is coming from a vocalist, is this: mic movement away from the mouth straightaway is typically done to reduce the sheer volume or the force of the projection on the more powerful notes. When these guys go balls out, having the mic up close would more likely than not cause their channel to spike into +db. Not good for the fans or the equipment. I use the same technique. Not to mask a crack or a bad note, but to keep the levels as close to 0db as possible. The thing is, yes they are passionate and animated. With the amount of adrenaline rushing through their veins, I think it comes down to not being able to control the arm as one normally would. Not a matter of not being able to control the voice.

Just my $.02

 

[Caldias]

I thought they did well. Someone I met at the show says he likes Kamelot a lot, but the concert didn't live up to the energy represented on the live album he had. He said he was a little disappointed. I can understand disappointment, but not anger.