ANZAC Day

Originally posted by Sullen Jester
You tell me, why would shooting someone be better than letting them shoot someone else?
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Because I'd rather have a hand in deciding my life, than just giving in. And what gives anyone the right to just waltz into your country and take over. That's something I'd fight for- not because it's my country, but it's my way of life that's at stake. As an example, if noone had fought Japan in WW2, everyone in NZ & Oz could now be speaking Japanese. Would you like that?
 
Originally posted by Oyo
You don't have to shoot all of them, just outfight them until they surrender. I also think that more people would have died had Hitler been able to go unstopped, than the amount of people who died trying to stop him.

Take the concentration camps for example, he would have seen to it every jew and gay in Europe was killed. I think it does mean something that people died to stop that.
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Hitlers retareded idealology made it impossible for him to win the war. If some important aspects where planned diffrent, I think Germany may still be able to occupy Europe/Russia for several years after the war.
 
Originally posted by Oyo
I know Juggie, but my point is, Sullen thinks it was stupid to fight Hitler. He would have just walked in and taken everything had a fight not been put up? See what I mean :-0
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I could argue with you But I wont :)
 
Because I'd rather have a hand in deciding my life, than just giving in. And what gives anyone the right to just waltz into your country and take over. That's something I'd fight for- not because it's my country, but it's my way of life that's at stake. As an example, if noone had fought Japan in WW2, everyone in NZ & Oz could now be speaking Japanese. Would you like that?
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What I meant by that, was the same thing for the death penalty concept. A man kills someone, so we kill him. Thus, shouldn't we be killed?

An army takes up arms to pursue their dreams - first mistake.
We take up arms to stop them - second mistake.
We stop them, and go a step further (Not necessarily the same, but think what the 'Allies' did to Germany after WW1 - they sent the whole country to the shit house, and gave Hitler a great place to start) - third mistake.

What would have been great?

Stopped the original army when they took up arms in a pacifist and humane way.

'We're going to stop this country from destroying everything with its weapons of war by getting our own weapons of war and destroying them.' - it seems to me to be the common means of 'protecting the peace'.

I'm not against ANZAC day and other things WW1/WW2 related - I'm against all war and against all idiocy. Having a cry because Mr. X went off to kill someone and didn't make it back is idiocy. Thinking that your country is the greatest and 'right' in it's wars is idiocy.

What I think is worse is seeing war glorified, as it has been for a long time.

(Please tell me if I'm running in circles, or not at all)
 
Originally posted by Sullen Jester
What would have been great?

Stopped the original army when they took up arms in a pacifist and humane way.
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If you could actually DO this, that'd be great, but unfortunately things don't work that way... If they did, obviously, we wouldn't be having this discussion...

'We're going to stop this country from destroying everything with its weapons of war by getting our own weapons of war and destroying them.' - it seems to me to be the common means of 'protecting the peace'.
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Yeah, pretty much... If x has weapon a and has the intent to use it, the only way y can prevent his from using it is to create weapon b... If y decided to play the pacifist role and x starts bombing y, y either has to start fighting back or pack up and move to z...

All that said, I agree... I think wars are stupid, but they have been/are a necessary evil and until someone comes up with a way to get everybody to get alone and not want what some other country has, they will remain...
 
Originally posted by Sullen Jester


'm not against ANZAC day and other things WW1/WW2 related - I'm against all war and against all idiocy. Having a cry because Mr. X went off to kill someone and didn't make it back is idiocy. Thinking that your country is the greatest and 'right' in it's wars is idiocy.

What I think is worse is seeing war glorified, as it has been for a long time.

(Please tell me if I'm running in circles, or not at all)
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I agree with some of your points, but you made it seem like earlier all the people who died for you where worthless, which I dont agree with.
 
Juggie - I think why they died is worthless.
I think that their willingness to go into battle (albeit, after a bit of propaganda) is a waste of life and resources.

They did not die for me, they died for the person/people pulling the strings. They died for anothers greed.
 
Yeah, pretty much... If x has weapon a and has the intent to use it, the only way y can prevent his from using it is to create weapon b... If y decided to play the pacifist role and x starts bombing y, y either has to start fighting back or pack up and move to z...
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Solution: instead of merely being x and y, they could have been together, as humans should be. They could have realised that they are the same and they are one. Segregation will only put up walls and those walls will not come down.

That's more of a 'before it happened' thing, and not really a solution (doh). Your scenario is the result of this not happening, and is the result of greedy fucks being in control. The prime notion of anarchy, is noone is in control, and everyone is free. This would be fine, but without the proper education and information there will always be someone trying to be in control, and there will always be people doing 'bad' things.

To quote Mudvayne - 'We're killing ourselves'.

(I should shut up now)
 
Two corporate executives walk into a tavern.
The corportate executive in the white suit asks the corportate executive in the black suit if he'd like a drink, the corportate executive in the black suit replies to the corportate executive in the white suit by saying "Yes." The corportate executive in the white suit buys the corportate executive in the black suit a drink. The corportate executive in the black suit promptly chugs the drink down faster than a corportate executive in a car. The corportate executive in the white suit says "Wow corportate executive in the black suit, you are going to get wasted tonight." The corportate executive in the black suit says "That's not my intention". The Corporate executive in the white suit says "Tu'Shay!"
 
I enjoy that joke-without-a-punchline concept.
You'll be telling a long (well, it should be long) story, and end it with something that either a) makes no sense, b) has no relevance or c) is not funny.
The listeners will have stuck it out for the long story, only to find it has no purpose. They will be irritated, agitated and whatnot for having wasted their time.
Get it?

It's like Man on the Moon - where they purposely let go of the vertical hold so everyone watching the show thinks thier television is fucked, get up, hit it a few times and whatever they can do to fix it. That's comedy =)
 
:lol:

Yeah my intentions with the corporate exectuive joke was this:

"Ah shit, it'll be hard to keep track of these two guys since their names are so long and repeated so often. Ah damn everytime something happens I have to think about the two different guys and make sure I don't get them mixed up, or else the punchline won't be funny"

Then they get to the end and there is no punchline, all that for nothing :D
 
Originally posted by Sullen Jester
Solution: instead of merely being x and y, they could have been together, as humans should be. They could have realised that they are the same and they are one. Segregation will only put up walls and those walls will not come down.
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Or they could just move to z... (As far as I can gather 'z' is Canada... I'm still confrused about this part...)

I agree as far as the solution (should've been part) is concerned but the question is, how do you get an entire world to that point? I kinda agree with Belial on this one... It'll most likely take a global incident before nations will wake up... (Or if you are religious, a God's intervention... I actually think this is the number one reason so many people look for 'god'... They've lost hope in human's ability to fix things so they look for an outside source... I'd be ignorant to not admit that I've felt this way myself...)
 
Originally posted by YourFuneral
I agree as far as the solution (should've been part) is concerned but the question is, how do you get an entire world to that point? I kinda agree with Belial on this one... It'll most likely take a global incident before nations will wake up... (Or if you are religious, a God's intervention... I actually think this is the number one reason so many people look for 'god'... They've lost hope in human's ability to fix things so they look for an outside source... I'd be ignorant to not admit that I've felt this way myself...)
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People will wait around for 'God's intervention', or some other 'miracle', not not do anything themselves. I once spoke to a homeless guy (one of many) who were often preached to by a Preist, and after all his 'work', I gave him money and asked "Why don't you try to take care of yourself, go on the dole, and attempt a new start?". He looked like he was taking it all into consideration and told me "God will take care of me, I feel it".

He was consigning himself to death because one man told him a mysterious godhead would take care of him.

I'm not sure if a global incident or anything that significant could bring the whole world to a level of understanding - there will be people not wanting to listen, there will be people who don't want to let go of what they have (money, power, etc). I think the people who have been in charge for the past millenium or so have sent us far enough to hell to never turn back.
 
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