"ARCH ENEMY welcomes Jeff Loomis as their new guitarist"

[Traxan]

He's more than welcome to, but I'm pretty sure he agrees with me that Jeff sucks. I've always made it very clear I'm here for Warrel and Jim only.

Bottom line is, Jeff joined Arch Enemy. It's even worst than when Vortex joined Dimmu Borgir. That's what this is. It's corporate. It's evil. It's a slap in the face to people like us they bought and own every Nevermore album and tons of their merchandise.

He's basically telling us all "I don't care about making meaningful music, anymore. I want to make money."

Good God you are one dumb fucking viking.

How much of a living do you think Jeff will make with an underground band like Arch Enemy? Probably enough to pay the mortgage. This isn't like Nuno Bettencourt working for Rihanna, or even if he took the lead guitar job in Anthrax. Quite frankly, AE is at roughly the same level as Nevermore.

This whole 'slap in the face' bullshit is laughable. Ideological purists like you are the worst kind of fans. You demand YOUR WAY from a musician, ignorant and completely uncaring of the realities in their life, like making a living and not ending up working a day job between gigs. No wonder Jeff avoids this place.

 

[lorinc]

Good God you are one dumb fucking viking.

Na, he's just trolling to the max. The more you react, the more he'll play the absurd guy. Just ignore him.

 

[~Lynn~]

 

[Dead Winter]

As usual I agree with some, but not all of your thoughts.

Jeff didn't write any good riffs on TGE...? Really?

Not really. That doesn't mean there are bad songs, but that album is Warrel Dane singing great vocal lines over one long guitar solo.

There are two songs that stand out from the rest where it's not just Warrel saving the day, and that is Sentient 6 and This Godless Endeavor..and in the end he still saves the day. Still, riff-wise, only those two songs really stand up to their back catalogue. You can make a great song out of a mediocre guitar riff, it's just up to the rest of the band to kinda save you, and that's largely what TGE is. Solos are everywhere and will set your hair on fire, but that doesn't change the fact that there are very few riffs in TGE that hold up to even EoR, even though TGE may technically be a more mature and focused album.

Give it a try. Skip every solo on TGE and listen only to the guitar riffs, then compare those riffs to Seed Awakening, Ambivalent, EoR, The River Dragon, The Sound of Silence (it's nothing like the original), Insignificant, and the entire DNB album.

I'm not saying TGE is a bad album...it's one of their best, but it's one of their best due to the sum of all its parts. It doesn't have that song that you listened to over and over and over and over and over the first time you heard it like you did with The River Dragon and DNB. Jeff's riffs, imo, were actually pretty stale on TGE, it's just that the songs were really good. That doesn't mean he didn't do interesting guitar work, but his style changed with the 7-string and it got progressively more and more egocentric with his playing. By the time TGE rolled around, he was doing rhythm stuff that didn't really fit with NM. NM was a melodic, progressive thrash metal band, but progressive to a point; they weren't a djent band and that's where his rhythms were starting to go. It's fine if that's what they wanted, and experimentation is always a good thing, but so many shifting structures, contratempi, weird polyrhythmic stuff were all interesting in a sort of gee-whiz kind of way, but that isn't what I consider what made NM NM. To each his own, of course, but I really don't hear anything that interesting riff-wise on TGE, aside from a few instances where I think, "Wow, that's really interesting, I wonder how he did that?" but then I find myself focusing on Warrel much, much more because the riffs have bored me. It's just my opinion, though.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

He's basically telling us all "I don't care about making meaningful music, anymore. I want to make money."

Until he waters down his music to appeal to the masses, which he has not even remotely done, you have absolutely zero basis for saying that. It's just your disgusting sense of entitlement and odd paranoia.

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

Eesh. Just read all this and don't remember posting much of it. I was doing some xanax/alcohol binging, forgive me, but I'm sure you're all used to it by now.

Anywho, I stand by my points. Uneasy Conscience thank you for making a logical argument against me. You're right. I can't prove that he will water it down for this album. But...look at the trend Arch Enemy has been on. Every album becoming progressively more fast-food (with a couple of exceptions). I have a hard enough time picturing Angela doing vocals over Jeff's stuff, this new chick damn sure couldn't do it. It's not a question of if Jeff is going to water it down, but how much.

And he won't make money doing this? Really now? Arch Enemy is a huge band. People that don't even listen to metal know about them. I'm not saying he's gonna strike gold here, but this is a money move, and if you deny that, you're more "paranoid" and "delusional" than you say I am.

 

[lorinc]

Not really. That doesn't mean there are bad songs, but that album is Warrel Dane singing great vocal lines over one long guitar solo.

There are two songs that stand out from the rest where it's not just Warrel saving the day, and that is Sentient 6 and This Godless Endeavor..and in the end he still saves the day. Still, riff-wise, only those two songs really stand up to their back catalogue. You can make a great song out of a mediocre guitar riff, it's just up to the rest of the band to kinda save you, and that's largely what TGE is. Solos are everywhere and will set your hair on fire, but that doesn't change the fact that there are very few riffs in TGE that hold up to even EoR, even though TGE may technically be a more mature and focused album.

Give it a try. Skip every solo on TGE and listen only to the guitar riffs, then compare those riffs to Seed Awakening, Ambivalent, EoR, The River Dragon, The Sound of Silence (it's nothing like the original), Insignificant, and the entire DNB album.

I'm not saying TGE is a bad album...it's one of their best, but it's one of their best due to the sum of all its parts. It doesn't have that song that you listened to over and over and over and over and over the first time you heard it like you did with The River Dragon and DNB. Jeff's riffs, imo, were actually pretty stale on TGE, it's just that the songs were really good. That doesn't mean he didn't do interesting guitar work, but his style changed with the 7-string and it got progressively more and more egocentric with his playing. By the time TGE rolled around, he was doing rhythm stuff that didn't really fit with NM. NM was a melodic, progressive thrash metal band, but progressive to a point; they weren't a djent band and that's where his rhythms were starting to go. It's fine if that's what they wanted, and experimentation is always a good thing, but so many shifting structures, contratempi, weird polyrhythmic stuff were all interesting in a sort of gee-whiz kind of way, but that isn't what I consider what made NM NM. To each his own, of course, but I really don't hear anything that interesting riff-wise on TGE, aside from a few instances where I think, "Wow, that's really interesting, I wonder how he did that?" but then I find myself focusing on Warrel much, much more because the riffs have bored me. It's just my opinion, though.

The Psalm of Lydia has very interesting riffs. Riffs that could have been taken from TPE or DNB, but played and arrange with the 7 strings style of the band.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

Yep. The riffing in Born is also awesome. TGE is a hell of an album.

 

[craptastic]

Eesh. Just read all this and don't remember posting much of it. I was doing some xanax/alcohol binging, forgive me, but I'm sure you're all used to it by now.

Anywho, I stand by my points. Uneasy Conscience thank you for making a logical argument against me. You're right. I can't prove that he will water it down for this album. But...look at the trend Arch Enemy has been on. Every album becoming progressively more fast-food (with a couple of exceptions). I have a hard enough time picturing Angela doing vocals over Jeff's stuff, this new chick damn sure couldn't do it. It's not a question of if Jeff is going to water it down, but how much.

And he won't make money doing this? Really now? Arch Enemy is a huge band. People that don't even listen to metal know about them. I'm not saying he's gonna strike gold here, but this is a money move, and if you deny that, you're more "paranoid" and "delusional" than you say I am.

Yes, it's a money move. A weak one considering his talents.

Seek help or learn to stay away from the keyboard during your xanax and alcohol moments.

 

[El Stormo]

Man, who cares what Jeff does. If he thinks it's a good move to join Arch Enemy, then that's good for him. Quite a few people here are acting as if he has to please you by choosing what band he plays in (hint: he doesn't). Having an opinion on this is all fine and dandy, but going purple and kicking your feet over what band a former guitarist wants to play in only shows that you lack all sense of perspective.

Also, some of you should really knock the whole "Jeff is evil and ruined Nevermore"-shtick on the head. None of us were in Nevermore, none of us know what happened. WD knows, but he's the only one. The rest of us should shut the fuck up about things we don't know jack about. Some of you sound like those wank stains who judge celebrity couples' love lives from what they read in the tabloids.

 

[Dead Winter]

Like I said, Jeff Loomis in Arch Enemy is actually quite appealing to me, it's just that it will be ruined by that turrible singer. I'd really like to see Loomis in a band where he's not the boss man of the riffs, where he has to do what he's told. Some people are better contributors than leaders. I think he could be the secret weapon AE needed and maybe his playing in Nevermore with Warrel's melodic vocals will rub off on AE and this girl will either be fired or learn how to properly sing/scream.

As far as Jeff the guitarist goes, I couldn't care less...he's never been a very appealing guitarist to me. Not saying he's not a great guitarist because he is, it's just his whole "extreme metal Yngwie" style was never appealing to me. I liked the songs he wrote more than the parts he played.

Nevermore traded in atmosphere and feeling for technical ability and look-what-I-can-do guitar stylings, so I stopped holding a candle for them around 2005, I believe. TGE was a nice kick in the ass but it didn't stick. That atmosphere and feeling is exactly why Sanctuary is being lauded for being what Nevermore gave up on. "Exitium" is quintessential Nevermore and the opening vocal line is better than the entire TGE album. Note how the guitars aren't flashy and the structures and riffs aren't overly complicated, yet it all meshes so effortlessly as if this album were already a classic.

 

[Traxan]

My only beef with Jeff's writing is that he wrote the drum parts in conjunction with the guitar parts, and basically told Van what to play. Jeff started out as a drummer so he knows enough to be dangerous. Some cases are blatantly obvious, like "Narcosynthesis," while others are more subtle. Imagine Jeff and Kerry telling Dave Lombardo what to play. He'd laugh at them. I figure in this case, Adrian Erlandson will tell Jeff to back off if he tries that.

As to TGE, don't forget Smyth was on the scene and he and Jeff were friends even before Smyth joined. Those two together probably encouraged each other's wankery rather than subdued it.

 

[El Stormo]

Imagine Jeff telling Dave Lombardo what to play. He'd laugh at them.

Pretty sure he'd scream and hide under the table.

 

[Dead Winter]

Guitar parts written with drum parts are pretty common. Fear Factory does it in order to get that machine-like sound. The thing is it works with FF because that's their thing; it doesn't work with a melodic thrash metal band.

 

[Traxan]

Pretty sure he'd scream and hide under the table.

Why did you edit to change the context? You took Kerry out. I was referring to Jeff Hahneman, not Loomis.

 

[Jeff-Loomis-fan]

Although i would like to see NM reunion, i like Arch Enemy too

definitely an upgrade from the last guitarist

 

[El Stormo]

Why did you edit to change the context? You took Kerry out. I was referring to Jeff Hahneman, not Loomis.

Yes, I know.

You said, "how would Dave Lombardo feel if Jeff told him how to play?"

Since Jeff Hanneman is dead, it would mean that poor Dave was suddenly confronted with a grotesque lurching risen dead.

Hence.

 

[Traxan]

Yes, I know.

You said, "how would Dave Lombardo feel if Jeff told him how to play?"

Since Jeff Hanneman is dead, it would mean that poor Dave was suddenly confronted with a grotesque lurching risen dead.

Hence.

Oh FFS... Hanemann was in the band 30 years and wrote a bunch of albums with Lombardo in that time. And you take him out of my comment because he's dead now?

It's true what they say.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

I find atmosphere in all Nevermore albums...some more than others, but it's there in every record. Even their most mainstream record DHIADW has a certain atmosphere to it.

Also, the older records (pre EOR) are technical. POE, for example, is a lesson in instrumentation.

 

[Dead Winter]

POE isn't nearly as technical as TGE and later stuff. It's full of heavy, "normal" thrash riffs. There is a polyrhythm here and there, but everything after EoR is much less cerebral and much more technical and experimental. I just don't think it's very interesting or appealing at all to have every other riff be some exercise in contratempo and polyrhythms just because you can...which is exactly what his playing style became after EoR. It was much more about showing off. Maybe he got bored of writing "regular" thrash riffs and wanted to mix it up a bit, which is understandable; I'm not saying people can't experiment or progress, but when your playing becomes more about you than the song, it becomes a problem.

Listen to Passenger...it sounds like a completely different band than TGE. Listen to the simple riffs dripping with atmosphere and the solos which sound like a completely different guitarist wrote them. Now listen to the Psalm of Lydia and how his chops have seriously improved but the song is completely meh unless you just love solos everywhere.

This always reminds me of the G3 with Satch, Vai, and Malmsteen where they were all jamming on a really simple riff, right in the pocket and playing perfectly off each other with a less-is-more thing that was working perfectly. Then all of a sudden Yngwie just jumps right in and starts sweeping all over the place and weedle weedling. I still remember Satch and Vai's faces...it was like one giant eyeroll as if to say, "Why the fuck did we ever ask this guy to play with us?" I kinda have that feeling whenever I listen to some parts of TGE. I listened to it for the first time in years the other day and I realized, just as many others have, that when it came out we listened to it waaaay too much and overhyped the hell out of it. As musicians we were in a place where we liked to circle jerk over solos because they had just become popular again in the mainstream and we were really excited about that. But underneath it, listening to it later we quickly lost interest and found ourselves going back to older stuff because, frankly, it was just better. Loomis was actually holding single notes instead of sweeping them every five seconds or throwing weird metrics and odd time signatures all over the place. I listened to it the other day and it was both nice and puzzling, and all I could think was, "I remember it being better."