Are electric guitars essential to metal?

[Erik]

I've been thinking about this a bit lately. Assume there'd exist a band which very much embraced traditionally "metal" compositional techniques, values and lyrics -- you know all the extra-aesthetical things that we use to define what bands are metal or not -- but didn't use electric guitars. Could that band be said to play metal? What if they used a distorted kantele or something instead? Where do you draw the line, is metal possible without guitars? Thoughts?

 

[Ayeka]

I'm curious as to what traditional Metal compositional techniques actually are, and what you mean by 'values'. I've got a hunch that once you take away the guitars you'll end up resembling some other form of music more than Metal, depending on what instrument you use. You could try playing Phantom Of The Opera with a string quartet and it would just be another piece of classical music...

 

[JayKeeley]

In today's terms, I would say yes. When metal was at its peak (in popularity) in the 80's, however, it was exceptionally traditional in its set up, and electric distorted guitars were mandatory. Other instruments weren't even allowed - it wasn't "metal" to use keyboards or synths, for example. Look at what happened with Maiden when they released Somewhere in Time.

Today's metal might have an evolutionary path from 70's Sabbath/Zeppelin, and 80's NWOBHM, but some of it can barely even be considered metal by those traditional standards just because it's progressed so much. It's through maintaining that evolutionary path that makes it metal.

I guess it's hereditary. It's all about coming from the right gene-pool.

 

[NAD]

I think metal just needs some form of a distorted instrument. Look at Mr. Self-destruct by Nine Inch Nails, that shredding "guitar" bit is just a really loud keyboard, but does the job.

Of course, this all depends on what your definition of metal actually is.

EDIT: Erik, dig up your thread with all those Metallica and Maiden songs done via mouth noises. Those were very metal indeed.

 

[Erik]

EDIT: This is in reply to Ayeka's post. You people are too quick

Yes, but you know that there are compositional techniques that makes stuff sound metal. If you hear a punk song and a metal song, both played with the same instruments, you instantly know which is metal. It's hard for me, knowing fuck-all about music theory, to pin down the exact things that makes us think songs belong to the metal genre, and surely there's a lot of bands that play songs that could belong to another genre were they not arranged for a classic metal band lineup... BUT even if "Phantom of the Opera" for example could be taken for a classical piece if played on different instruments, there are certain things in composition that are quite typical for metal and metal only.

Values. Well, you know, for one, ever since Black Sabbath metal has always been about rebellion and keeping a certain distance from society, etc.

 

[J.]

my brain hurts....

Short answer: yes.

 

[Ayeka]

Yes, but you know that there are compositional techniques that makes stuff sound metal. If you hear a punk song and a metal song, both played with the same instruments, you instantly know which is metal. It's hard for me, knowing fuck-all about music theory, to pin down the exact things that makes us think songs belong to the metal genre, and surely there's a lot of bands that play songs that could belong to another genre were they not arranged for a classic metal band lineup... BUT even if "Phantom of the Opera" for example could be taken for a classical piece if played on different instruments, there are certain things in composition that are quite typical for metal and metal only.

I see what you mean, but like you, don't have much idea of how to express it in musical terms long fiddly solos is the best I can think of, I doubt screaming counts as a compositional technique

Values. Well, you know, for one, ever since Black Sabbath metal has always been about rebellion and keeping a certain distance from society, etc.

I see. I'd like to see how that could be conveyed by classical music

 

[Erik]

I see what you mean, but like you, don't have much idea of how to express it in musical terms long fiddly solos is the best I can think of, I doubt screaming counts as a compositional technique

Screaming is not composition but performance/arrangement/aesthetics... Whatever
The stuff I'm referring to lies deeper than that, in the way metal bands write riffs, arrange riffs, arrange songs. Like when I read a review of Ulver's "Kveldssanger" in a neo-folk webzine and they said it was obvious that this was a metal band doing neo-folk from the composition. I can see where they're coming from saying stuff like that.

 

[lizard]

to me, guitar is the essence of metal.
I mean, look at apocalyptica yes?

 

[Ayeka]

I guess I know it when I hear it ^_^ cheers for explaining

 

[NAD]

Values. Well, you know, for one, ever since Black Sabbath metal has always been about rebellion and keeping a certain distance from society, etc.

I see. I'd like to see how that could be conveyed by classical music

Oh, you have much to learn my friend! Stravinsky once caused a riot with his music!

 

[Erik]

EDIT: Erik, dig up your thread with all those Metallica and Maiden songs done via mouth noises. Those were very metal indeed.

http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/DOKAKA/index-0.html

These? Yes.

 

[NAD]

Alright, they did a King Crimson song now!

 

[JayKeeley]

Like when I read a review of Ulver's "Kveldssanger" in a neo-folk webzine and they said it was obvious that this was a metal band doing neo-folk from the composition. I can see where they're coming from saying stuff like that.

It's a little philosophical when you think about it. I'm not sure if there is an easy answer to all this, because if that were the case, we'd be able to bottle and resell the recipe. There's obviously some 'entity' found within the realms of metal (regardless of genre/style) that we, as fans, can connect to. The stronger that connectivity, the better we appreciate the music. Case in point: the general public would not run screaming from Kveldssanger because they would hear it at face value - the instrumentation, the tempo etc. If you let them hear Nattens Madrigal, they would probably jump infront of a speeding bus. However, both albums exist on Planet Metal IMO. There has to be something embedded within the music that transcends structure, and that 'something' is what we tune into, whereas the general public run away from. If you think about it, most metal fans love metal, and most non-metal fans absolutely despise it. Very little in between.

 

[NAD]

My Grammaw loves Kveldssanger. I'll never play Nattens Madrigal for her though, I don't want to kill her.

 

[JayKeeley]

Well, here's a thought then: Why do certain musical notes and structures affect us in different ways? Why do minor notes/chords sound melancholic and sad, and major chords sound jubilant and pompous?

If you play classical music to a 12-month old infant, their mood reacts in accordance to the music they hear. Why? They don't have the rationale to distinguish sad and happy music, or do they?

Sure, tempo is slightly easier to translate: upbeat loud tempos are energizing, and slow drawn out soft percussion provides a lull for relaxed interpretation. However, with musical notes, there is obviously something quite instinctive about how we ALL interpret music, and yet it's not something that is specifically taught.

Thoughts?

 

[Black Winter Day]

okay... to repudiate this...

name one non-distorted song that is METAL and state what makes it "metal"

and for the record, i do not consider kveldssanger metal in any way

 

[ChiefB]

Electric guitars are absolutely essential to metal as they form the apex of all metal bands. If it ain't got a guitar then it ain't metal. I certainly don't see the electric triangle as the future replacement of the electric guitar. God damn us to hell if that happens.

 

[Ayeka]

Oh, you have much to learn my friend! Stravinsky once caused a riot with his music!

Oh yes, I heard about that I really should check out this classical shit Sunday, Sunday, someday...

 

[J.]

Summoning have made songs without the guitar. Pazuzu's entire catalogue is without guitars. I consider both of those bands to be very metal.

Then again, I don't consider the way something sounds or what instruments are used to define who is metal and who is not. It is the essence (not ideology) of the music that defines it (for me, anyway). Kveldssanger is metal, just not in the blatant, presentable way.

Dargaard is basically darkwave music, but many metalheads identify with the band's music. Why? Because it encompasses all that is metal without actually being metal.