arranged marriage

[Demiurge]

I think arranged marriage should become the practice once again. What, really, is the benefit offered by our selfish marriages of individual choice? Certainly, they're no more lasting or loving. They're short, fickle, and people give up on them quickly. Perhaps if there was familial responsibility to one's own blood to nurture the relationship, couples wouldn't split over petty disputes. Arranged marriage has the benefit of establishing a larger unity, a greater network.

 

[Cythraul]

It also has the benefit of coupling people together who actually don't give a shit about eachother. What difference will it make if marriages are arranged? People can still get a divorce if they end up hating eachother. In the cases where a marriage of individual choice actually does last then it has the same social utility as an arranged marriage. Also, I don't think it could really be implemented in the U.S.; that kind of change would necessitate a huge shift in mentality for people, one that I think doesn't have much chance of succeeding here.

 

[Demiurge]

Most people have respect for their family and will obey their wishes. Arranged marriage places external pressure on both people. This doesn't exist by choice. Simply, people try to protect their family's interest. You'll note, for instance, that criminal organizations comprised exclusively of blood relatives will almost never break down and snitch under pressure. This is obviously not the case even amongst friends.

They'll learn to give a shit about each other. The stability of a marriage is determined moreso by social conditions than the people involved, hence, the bloated divorce rate in the States.

I would agree that it would be very difficult to implement in the US. Nevertheless, I think it's better.

 

[speed]

Almost my entire grad school class was made up of Indians. Most were married, or about to get married. A few of them had arranged marriages that seemed to be going just fine. The reason that I mention the Indians is because even those Indians who got married sans an arranged marriafe, stay married because they feel they have a duty to not only their spouse, but to their family as well. And you know, there is not much dating going on either.

we simply dont care for family or community. There is no duty to anyone other than a supposed duty to the illusion of self-gratification.

 

[infoterror]

Arranged marriages redefine our vision of marriage from some spacy romantic shit to a pragmatic working relationship. That is actually more romantic, although it would take many pages to explain why.

As always, the truth is for the few, and the rest try to shoot it down because they know they're failures.

 

[Cythraul]

Simply, people try to protect their family's interest.

That's really quite naive. You're assuming that everybody actually has a family that isn't shit or hasn't fucked them over. That whole thing is a myth. If one of your blood relatives is so inclined, they'll betray you in a heartbeat. I've seen this too many times and I've experienced it myself. So while families may have stronger bonds in general I still think it comes down to what kind of people you're dealing with.

The stability of a marriage is determined moreso by social conditions than the people involved, hence, the bloated divorce rate in the States.

I don't really understand that particular statement. Last time I checked, a marriage was composed of two conscious beings who can make decisions. What particular social conditions are you talking about and how do they take precedence over the fact that Mr. and Mrs. So-and-So are the last word, it seems to me, on whether or not a marriage will last?




ps- As far as I'm concerned, nobody anywhere at anytime, not even my parents will be deciding whom I shall be spending the rest of my life with. I don't hold the view that a lifelong, child-producing relationship with a woman is merely a social institution and that my feelings for said woman are mere epiphenomena. Why? Because it doesn't have to be and I don't view it that way and it's not that way if you don't want it to be, simple enough. If other people want their parents to pair them up with somebody, good for them.

 

[Cythraul]

The reason that I mention the Indians is because even those Indians who got married sans an arranged marriafe, stay married because they feel they have a duty to not only their spouse, but to their family as well. And you know, there is not much dating going on either.

we simply dont care for family or community. There is no duty to anyone other than a supposed duty to the illusion of self-gratification.

This, I think, is the heart of the issue. It's not about who's making the decision but why they're making it.

 

[Demiurge]

That's really quite naive. You're assuming that everybody actually has a family that isn't shit or hasn't fucked them over. That whole thing is a myth. If one of your blood relatives is so inclined, they'll betray you in a heartbeat. I've seen this too many times and I've experienced it myself. So while families may have stronger bonds in general I still think it comes down to what kind of people you're dealing with.

I'll settle for improving the situation in general and leave fixing it absolutely for later when I'm writing a utopian novel.

I don't really understand that particular statement. Last time I checked, a marriage was composed of two conscious beings who can make decisions. What particular social conditions are you talking about and how do they take precedence over the fact that Mr. and Mrs. So-and-So are the last word, it seems to me, on whether or not a marriage will last?

What decision they make depends very much so on external conditions. If divorce is frowned upon by society at large and particularly family, couples are more inclined to fix their relationship, which can be difficult, rather than trash it, which is easy. Though you probably know I'm not a Christian fundamentalist, I see widespread divorce as symptomatic of social decay. Everyone is a quitter who demands easy, constant pleasure.

I don't hold the view that a lifelong, child-producing relationship with a woman is merely a social institution and that my feelings for said woman are mere epiphenomena.

You'll develop a relationship. An acquaintance told me that american marriages start hot and go cold and arranged marriages are the opposite. I agree with that sentiment. As long as your parents value you and do not pair you with a psychotic wench, a relationship can be forged. All of this dating nonsense is unnecessary.

It is good to see at least a few kindred spirits.

 

[Hubster]

No fucking way.

I'm sorry, but this thread is a DUMB idea, and I never say that in this forum.

Why do I say this? Well let's put it this way:

1) I'm Indian
2) My parents had an arranged marriage, and you don't want to know what that was like. Thank fuck they got divorced.
3) Nearly every arranged marriage I know of in my family is falling apart. It does NOT work in todays (western) ethical systems. Trust me, if anyone knows this, it's me.

Apologies if I sound pig headed, I'm not trying to be. Simply that as an ethnic person who comes from a culture which is rife with such practices, I cannot state enough how much arranged marriage is fucked.

Demiurge, nothing personal dude, but what the hell were you thinking when posting this thread? Encouragement of the arranged marriage practice in Western society is an ABSURD idea, and I'm an EASTERNER saying this!!!

 

[Demiurge]

Western ethical systems are fucked up. Arranged marriages are a part of a plan to restore unity to life.

There's nothing in your post to upset me.

 

[Blaphbee]

Besides, it's always so much fun for individuals to condemn something completely out of context. It removes the burden of having to effectively make sense.

EDIT: that wasn't directed at you, Demiurge.

 

[Demiurge]

Besides, it's always so much fun for individuals to condemn something completely out of context. It removes the burden of having to effectively make sense.

That's a good point. There really was nothing for me to respond to in his post.

 

[Hubster]

There was nothing personal meant by it, so no, nothing for you to[i/] respond to. It wasn't meant to be directed at you personally Demiurge.

I just have extreme feelings against arranged marriages because of what I see going on in my own culture and family. That's all...

 

[Demiurge]

There was nothing personal meant by it, so no, nothing for you to[i/] respond to. It wasn't meant to be directed at you personally Demiurge.

I took it personally because it was addressed to me.

Demiurge, nothing personal dude, but what the hell were you thinking when posting this thread?

See? You address me by name then tell me that what you're saying isn't personal. What then is the word "Demiurge" supposed to signify?

When I say that I took it personally, I don't mean that it offended me. I mean I understood it as directed at me. I want to clear up this ambiguity.

 

[MorgulLordofShadows]

I can't speak for arranged marriages. I can speak for the kind that involve two people who love each other. My parents met and married within 3 months. The marriage lasted and was a good one (in my humble opinion since they raised me and I saw the everday interactions) but ended when my father died 5 and a half years ago. Next year would have been their 32nd anniversary. To get to the point, yes the divorce rate is high. There are however many marriages out there that do last. I do not really see how social conditions affect marriage in anywhere near the same amount as the personality and attitudes of the couple involved. Example: My best friend was married less than a year ago and is already engaged in divorce processes. I won't go into details as it is not my place. I will say that I feel the reason for the divorce was a lack of patience and not taking the time to truly know the girl. I think this impatient attitude and the American position of "give me what I want and do it now" is the main reason for the lack of successful marriages. The ability to have a quick wedding and just as quickly anull or divorce doesn't help matters at all. The ease of the process seems to prevent people from taking the time to meditate on the question:"Is this what and who I really want?" In my opinion, arranged marriages have just as many opportunities as they do pitfalls as the "non-arranged" type. Hubster, I am sorry that your experience with your parents arranged marriage was not a good one. Too many people have had their childhood in a family where the marriage was not as good as it could be. In conclusion, the quality of marriage is ultimately up to the couple involved. Arranged or not. Perfect example of marriage gone bad: Henry VIII, and all the wives.

 

[Hubster]

Marriage overall is a tough thing these days. People are pickier with their choice of partners more than ever before, and the increase in overall living costs conbined with the goals for stable careers places massive stress on relationships.

I guess I speak for Generation X, which I'm a part of. Divorce is widespread in my generation, but also I've found many "open" relationships to exist, or "permanent defacto" ones.

I've noticed in the new generation there seems to be two movements: that of a return to pre-Generation X style marriages (almost akin to the 50s in some ways) and also a high amount of physical-apperace/money based relationships... Perhaps a better way to describe is two movements, with one being "older morals" based, and the other with practically none.

 

[speed]

Marriage overall is a tough thing these days. People are pickier with their choice of partners more than ever before, and the increase in overall living costs conbined with the goals for stable careers places massive stress on relationships.

I guess I speak for Generation X, which I'm a part of. Divorce is widespread in my generation, but also I've found many "open" relationships to exist, or "permanent defacto" ones.

I've noticed in the new generation there seems to be two movements: that of a return to pre-Generation X style marriages (almost akin to the 50s in some ways) and also a high amount of physical-apperace/money based relationships... Perhaps a better way to describe is two movements, with one being "older morals" based, and the other with practically none.

Oh I agree with that delineation.

The one smaller portion of the 50's girls you know physical intimacy= marriage

And the rest either marry for physical appearance, pleasure and status, or for money.

There are a few marriages out there that evolve out of loneliness, platonic thought, some common cause and so forth.

I'd like to hear some women discuss these issues. But I am not hopeful of a single woman reading a philosophy forum on a heavy metal internet forum.

 

[NeverIsForever]

I'd like to hear some women discuss these issues. But I am not hopeful of a single woman reading a philosophy forum on a heavy metal internet forum.

I'm not even sure that I want to get married in the first place, based on the marriages I've seen, but I still think arranged marriage is a really, really bad idea. Perhaps marriages for love aren't more "lasting," but they are undeniably more "loving." Even if it falls apart later, the couple loved one another at the beginning. Yes, you have the odd scenario with arranged marriage where the partners grow to love one another, or just happen to be compatible. But I believe that's the exception and not the rule. You can't force yourself to love someone. It's either there or it's not. And without love, what would differentiate physical consummation from rape?

I can't believe that this thread has continued despite the condemnation of this practice by someone who has personal experience with it. He knows better than any of us can...

 

[Hubster]

Thankyou. That was a really good and clear post.

 

[speed]

Yes NeverForever I htink you need to post on this forum more often. There is just too much testosterone.

Still, I will take Demiurge's side on this one. I dont think arranged marriage is necessarily the way to go, nor should it be brought back into American life, but I do think the underlying principle is the important thing. The idea that duty to family and community is more important than the fleeting emotion of love. Now realistically, 99% of Americans will chose love, and or personal advancement in terms of marriage, so it is not as if arranged marriage will ever return. But clearly something is broken in our current institution of marriage. We have an over 58% divorce rate that has been steadily rising. And kids brought up in single parent families are generally frought with psychological and emotional disorders. Maybe in the future something new will happen; either a return to traditional forms, or new non traditional partnerships. who knows?