ATTN JayKeeley
- Thread starter lizard
- Start date
Krilons Resa
Jerry's married?!
Conspicuously Absent
Linguistically Confused
NADatar said:Beer and boobs, yo.
@CA: ze movie I qvoted vuz Dogma.
is that the one where he bangs the devil? or am I thinking of a different one
NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
Conspicuously Absent
Linguistically Confused
beer and boobs, and great music...the great unifiers too bad the iraqis are forbidden to drink.
Jason: I certainly didn't expect this thread to blow up (pun intended) overnight.
It is important to note, my friend, that Zarqcowee (sp) has been built up by the military to be the major boogieman of the insurgency, and yes, he was a majorly bad dude and I was happy to see him dead. The point being, though, Saddam and religious fundamentalists were fervent enemies, having polar opposite goals, and Al Queda had virtually no presence in iraq until we invaded. We still have as problems
1) the al queda which remains
2) sunnis hate shiites
3) shiites hate sunnis
4) kurds hate both 2 and 3
5) 2 and 3 hate 4
this is what happens when a nation is arbitrarily established by colonial powers without regard to historical or tribal boundries; exhibit one, Rwanda.
I fully agree that everyone would benefit by a stable and democratic Iraq but the fact is, even if the warring factions could come to some stability, the Iraqi government is in fact moving closer to Iran diplomatically! Saddam was able to hold his nation together through brutality and sheer strength, much like Tito in Yugoslavia. Nature abhors a vacuum and remove the strongman, and what happens. Even if you buy into the fifth reason why we invaded, that Saddam was so evil we had to, (and make no mistake, our invasion was textbook successful; it was our subsequent strategy that was horribly flawed), it doesn't change the fact that what we in effect did was remove the single stabilizing force and did not replace it.
I feel for our troops over there placed in a fucked situation, some of those guys are on their third fucking tour. most of you are too young to remember the stereotype of the crazed vietnam vet, returned from the war, drugged up and homeless....well, we are creating a whole new generation of them. the new guy I work with, the one who killed the eight year old boy? He was also shot four times in one incident and is permanently disabled. He served two tours over there. When do we stop trying to play puppet master and take care of our own people first?
Did you see the story about how now we're supporting muslim fundamentalists in Somalia? This is all so short sighted and ridiculous.
I am actually a meager cog in the US war machine and you won't find anyone more patriotic than me. but is it patriotism to support stupid ideas?
Sorry for the blah blah blah.
Jason: I certainly didn't expect this thread to blow up (pun intended) overnight.
It is important to note, my friend, that Zarqcowee (sp) has been built up by the military to be the major boogieman of the insurgency, and yes, he was a majorly bad dude and I was happy to see him dead. The point being, though, Saddam and religious fundamentalists were fervent enemies, having polar opposite goals, and Al Queda had virtually no presence in iraq until we invaded. We still have as problems
1) the al queda which remains
2) sunnis hate shiites
3) shiites hate sunnis
4) kurds hate both 2 and 3
5) 2 and 3 hate 4
this is what happens when a nation is arbitrarily established by colonial powers without regard to historical or tribal boundries; exhibit one, Rwanda.
I fully agree that everyone would benefit by a stable and democratic Iraq but the fact is, even if the warring factions could come to some stability, the Iraqi government is in fact moving closer to Iran diplomatically! Saddam was able to hold his nation together through brutality and sheer strength, much like Tito in Yugoslavia. Nature abhors a vacuum and remove the strongman, and what happens. Even if you buy into the fifth reason why we invaded, that Saddam was so evil we had to, (and make no mistake, our invasion was textbook successful; it was our subsequent strategy that was horribly flawed), it doesn't change the fact that what we in effect did was remove the single stabilizing force and did not replace it.
I feel for our troops over there placed in a fucked situation, some of those guys are on their third fucking tour. most of you are too young to remember the stereotype of the crazed vietnam vet, returned from the war, drugged up and homeless....well, we are creating a whole new generation of them. the new guy I work with, the one who killed the eight year old boy? He was also shot four times in one incident and is permanently disabled. He served two tours over there. When do we stop trying to play puppet master and take care of our own people first?
Did you see the story about how now we're supporting muslim fundamentalists in Somalia? This is all so short sighted and ridiculous.
I am actually a meager cog in the US war machine and you won't find anyone more patriotic than me. but is it patriotism to support stupid ideas?
Sorry for the blah blah blah.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Agreed. History has shown, nation building doesn't work. To think that this administration, who can't help it's own people, and had no plan going in, is going to make it work, is beyond absurd. Eventually, the bloodshed will get so bad and support for the war will be so low, that we'll pull out. And the end result of this will be as follows:lizard said:
1 - Thousands and thousands of dead American soldiers
2 - Tens of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians
3 - A national debt that is incomprehensible
4 - the world view of America tarnished for decades
5 - greater hatred and distrust of America in the muslim world
6 - an Iraq that will be far less stable than it was when we arrove. Tribal warfare and ethnic cleansing. And in the end, Iraq will be a nation run by a muslim fundamentalist, may or may not be worse than Hussein.
The net gain of our efforts? Haliburton and the industrial military complex swimming in a sea of green. Thanks W.
Zod
NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
This is the problem with so much US foreign policy. It's not just in a hindsight being 20/20 perspective either, glaringly awful people are supported because the short term benefits seem to be okay, with absolutely no thought about long term problems. It's not gross or irresponsible so much as it is just flat out stupid.lizard said:
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Agreed. Our politicains aren't interested in long term solutions, they're interested in being re-elected.NADatar said:
Zod
J.
Old Fart
NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
Conspicuously Absent
Linguistically Confused
General Zod said:
thats the entire fucking problem. They aren't out for the good, they're out to make people happy so they can get re-elected and make more money and be considered a powerful man for longer. That is the entire flaw with modern democracy.
Dark One
The Tainted Dogma
You know, I don't really think that chick J. posted is that hot, LOL.
BTW, It's generally me vs. the world when I post about this kind of stuff around here, which is no fun whatsoever, so, it's cool, I'll continue to keep it to a minimum. I'm certainly not convinced by anything I've read, nor have I convinced anyone else regarding their own beliefs - and no matter how much discussion we have about, that isn't going to change.
BTW, It's generally me vs. the world when I post about this kind of stuff around here, which is no fun whatsoever, so, it's cool, I'll continue to keep it to a minimum. I'm certainly not convinced by anything I've read, nor have I convinced anyone else regarding their own beliefs - and no matter how much discussion we have about, that isn't going to change.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
