Avatar SD 2.0 Black Beauty Snare!

[GearMan2point0]

If anyone is using SD and having a hard time with the snare not fitting in the mix.

1. lacking fatness?
2. sticking out with harsher frequencies?

I have found a cure, at least it works for me anyway!

First thing is first, I send each individual piece to a track in the DAW!
**1. Go to your SD mixer! at the bottom part, click output option.
2. on sub menu, choose 1/2 for all three kick mics, all three snare mics, hi hat get it's own track, toms individually, and overheads to another track. What I do is I send AMB close, AMB mid and AMB far to the same track as Overheads. (lower volume than overheads)

Now as you are in you are in your SD mixer:

1. Snare Top:
a. EQ - +3db on low end from around 200hz (Low Shelf), -3db from mids (around 350-500hz), wider Q for that, then Raise 1-2db high shelf at around 2k.

2. Snare Bottom
a. EQ - -3db low end, low shelf / Keep mids there / (if you want thwack, add hi (bell curve) maybe 1-2db to around 3k-5k.
b. Transient Designer, take out sustain. medium amount. Just want that thwack to happen then cut out. You need that thwack to add mid punch (remember taking out mids on the top and comp, it leaves more room for mid thwack that is only .2 to .4 ms long.

3. Comp Snare
a. EQ - add bell curve at 200hz, few db's / take out some mids, medium Q, at around 500-800hz. Add some hi's for brightness.
b. Transient Designer, take out ping. lower sustain not too much!

Now you are done with SD Mixer!

Now to snare track on your DAW.....
1. Add compression!
-10 threshold
4:1 ratio
2 ms attack
200 ms release

2. Gclip, clip it a bit....not too much

3. Transient Designer
add attack

4. EQ
add more 200hz narrow Q
Add 5k for brightness if needed (depending on mix)
take out 2khz but only a very narrow Q (bad frequency for hearing)

NOW that the snare track is fine....go to your overhead track where you sent OH AMB's to thru the SD mixer....

1. Take out some mids of the OH's. YES even after you already took out low end to get rid of low end bleed. Take away mids! ***make sure you figure out what the sheen of the snare is, in the mid area..now take that from OH. not a wide Q just enough to get rid of some of the competition of the original tone of the snare and the edited snare! The orginal snare has a unbaring mid frequency sound that is sort of harsh!

Alter bleeds on SD mixer! That part is very crucial, since too much bleed can kill it. But too little makes the snare sound dryer and less ambient.

Then you add your reverb either directly on track with little wetness, or have have a send. But that is all! try it out tell me what you think!

 

[CronosBeyond]

How about a short sample?

 

[GearMan2point0]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19450618/Avatar BBS Dry vs Wet.mp3

First Snare is dry, second...running through chain on OP. You can't quite hear all the potential until you put it in the mix. But let me know how it sounds standing alone

 

[vespiz]

Try flipping the polarity ("phase") from either the snare top or the OHs.

No matter what the source (real drums / SD2.0 / whatever) I always do this and listen which way sounds better.

 

[viralz]

Get LSD drums snare pack and move along

 

[GearMan2point0]

Get LSD drums snare pack and move along

Why? When you replace with drum samples, it gets ride of the ambience and I feel takes away life.

EDIT: Whenever I do this to my snares, it ALWAYS fit in the mix for me! Everytime. I feel that it's fat enough and it works well with multiple genre's. My favorite snare sound of all time to be honest.

 

[Fox Mulder]

^ Room samples

 

[GearMan2point0]

^ Room samples

It's just not the same, its just not the same

 

[Redoubt9000]

I've always found my snares coming out pretty puny both prior and towards the end of processing (but I love the woody snare clacks of the TMF library). But having an axillary track featuring a room impulse blended into the sound really adds some body and vibe without much loss in the impact. I guess it works even more so for me because most of my mixes are usually either ridiculously *atmospheric*, and having the tail end of a snare dragging out doesn't sound much out of place.

I say build a quick template and route your tracks out of sd2. it always just felt a bit too cumbersome to work in it in terms of using its fx.

 

[MIAnn]

The amount of processing i apply to SD2 snares dramatically reduced when i started using the Joe Baressi Evil Drums SDX i fucking love its black beauty so bad, routed to a bit of SSL channel comp and a hint of Lexicon plate on the bottom mic : im VERY good to go.. all down to personal taste tho i guess

 

[GearMan2point0]

I've always found my snares coming out pretty puny both prior and towards the end of processing (but I love the woody snare clacks of the TMF library). But having an axillary track featuring a room impulse blended into the sound really adds some body and vibe without much loss in the impact. I guess it works even more so for me because most of my mixes are usually either ridiculously *atmospheric*, and having the tail end of a snare dragging out doesn't sound much out of place.

I say build a quick template and route your tracks out of sd2. it always just felt a bit too cumbersome to work in it in terms of using its fx.

Yeah on the OP, I mentioned routing everything to tracks. I was trying to help those that rather keep the snare right from SD2.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Why? When you replace with drum samples, it gets ride of the ambience and I feel takes away life.

It's just not the same, its just not the same

Then you are doing it wrong.

 

[CronosBeyond]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19450618/Avatar BBS Dry vs Wet.mp3

First Snare is dry, second...running through chain on OP. You can't quite hear all the potential until you put it in the mix. But let me know how it sounds standing alone

Can I hear one of your mixes with that snare, please?

 

[GearMan2point0]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19450618/Grime.mp3

Song with the snare in the mix

 

[grywolf627]

Holy midrange!! :zombie:

 

[lekteri]

Have you tried the nir-z snare?

 

[KBMoser]

well... my drum tracks are 60% overheads. im able to compress my overhead tracks 6-10 db depending on source, without any artifacts like distortion or pumping. a medium attack and very short release makes this possible. theres also a different results with fast attack and slow release... its all dependent on source tracks. This makes the tracks very flat but still dynamic due to recording real drums. If the snare is weak in certain spots, ill take a overhead sample of the snare and paste it on a different track and bus it to the same compressor. i really think a lot of people overlook the importance of overheads for drum tones. I think its because its hard to get it right without experience and for most new engineers, dialing the right amount of compression/eq is difficult. the sound of ambiance is very deceiving because it almost disappears when the rest of the tracks are playing - and the tracks are weaker without ambiance. Ive really been able to get away using 60% overheads/40% close mics once i started to get the best possible result from my overheads from mic positioning, drum tuning, using things like moon gels depending on the type of tone im after, and of course the MOST important thing that everyone should be a nazi about, the playing.
but of course, its important to know when too much is too much when it comes to compression. You want the tracks to breath of course but not a lot. Modern recordings from the best engineers show this. so take a day and play around with a drum sampler vsti or something one day where you can control every aspect of the overhead microphones. the envelope shaper ( not transient designer ) can help shape the attack of the drums or enhance a dry feeling by cutting a little ambiance. Once you get a feeling for what compression sounds like on overheads and how simple things like ambiance from the actual drum changes the overall sound, the more you can recognize it in recordings, the "artifacts" so to speak or the "sound" of nicely compressed overheads. eq is crucial too. as always, try to cut resonant frequencies with a narrow band and honky or distracting frequencies with a broad band. try it out.

 

[GearMan2point0]

Have you tried the nir-z snare?

I haven't really spent much time with it. Have you had any success?

 

[lekteri]

14" GMS Nir-Z Custom.

 

[GearMan2point0]

well... my drum tracks are 60% overheads. im able to compress my overhead tracks 6-10 db depending on source, without any artifacts like distortion or pumping. a medium attack and very short release makes this possible. theres also a different results with fast attack and slow release... its all dependent on source tracks. This makes the tracks very flat but still dynamic due to recording real drums. If the snare is weak in certain spots, ill take a overhead sample of the snare and paste it on a different track and bus it to the same compressor. i really think a lot of people overlook the importance of overheads for drum tones. I think its because its hard to get it right without experience and for most new engineers, dialing the right amount of compression/eq is difficult. the sound of ambiance is very deceiving because it almost disappears when the rest of the tracks are playing - and the tracks are weaker without ambiance. Ive really been able to get away using 60% overheads/40% close mics once i started to get the best possible result from my overheads from mic positioning, drum tuning, using things like moon gels depending on the type of tone im after, and of course the MOST important thing that everyone should be a nazi about, the playing.
but of course, its important to know when too much is too much when it comes to compression. You want the tracks to breath of course but not a lot. Modern recordings from the best engineers show this. so take a day and play around with a drum sampler vsti or something one day where you can control every aspect of the overhead microphones. the envelope shaper ( not transient designer ) can help shape the attack of the drums or enhance a dry feeling by cutting a little ambiance. Once you get a feeling for what compression sounds like on overheads and how simple things like ambiance from the actual drum changes the overall sound, the more you can recognize it in recordings, the "artifacts" so to speak or the "sound" of nicely compressed overheads. eq is crucial too. as always, try to cut resonant frequencies with a narrow band and honky or distracting frequencies with a broad band. try it out.

hmmm, good points. As far as for replacing, the reason I prefer not to do it, yet I know you can just use room sample along with dry (say...snare10aZ1 and Snare10aZ4), is that when I need a snare roll for a certian part, Drumagog doesn't pick up the smaller transients. I have messes with the toggle's and such, but to no avail.